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Thread: My Grand Social Experiment

  1. #41
    I guess that an argument can be made on either side of the issue. Both arguments appear to be valid and each is a no brainer, depending what side you have made your mind up to be the most valid.

    You keep skirting the point I have been dogging you on and keep making this a CC vs OC argument.

    I notice you didn't answer me using your Rosa Parks analogy of her doing what she thought was right in the face of controversy.

    Your insistence on privacy was the only issue I had while you still OC. As I have said, this seems to be a paradox in every sense. Not being noticed while CC'ing or most likely being noticed while OC'ing.

    You say that nobody even notices that you are carrying but I think it is more likely nobody stares, at least when you're looking.

    You will be able to tell this better than I, since you apparently keep files on me for instant recall when you quote me, but from the first time I made comments about OC'ing vs CC'ing in other discussions with other folks, that you injected yourself into, I have come more to the middle.

    As I have stated, I was always a proponent for 'you do what you do but I will Cc', but I still lean toward CC'ing being more conducive to remaining anonymous and unobtrusive.

    I don't walk around thinking that I may be a victim and I am 'almost certain', that in a crowd of three or more, I am not gonna be the one that someone chooses to victimize first, if nothing more than from my physical appearance alone. That in itself would tend to give me the slightest edge and a few extra moments to react by yanking my shirt tail over my piece.

    I will not go into your side of the argument because you have done that exponentially.

    The fact that I feel like I have that particular edge makes me feel safer than the guy who is OC'ing and the BG is looking for a gun to steal and is stealthily stalking someone to steal it from when they are not looking. Being you are who you are and at the top of every game you play, I'm quite certain you feel nobody could ever get the drop on you.

    So, as this will be my last post EVER on what I feel are the merits of each side, unless someone asks me a specific question regarding the subject, I will close in saying that I have been swayed, albeit in the fact that I now have a more open mind about the subject.

    KK


    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The difference between CC and OC is really much less than some people would attempt to lead you to believe. The concealed carrier wears his/her shirt over the gun. The open carrier tucks their shirt behind their gun. The concealed carrier trusts that they will be able to overcome a criminal attacking them by using their gun. The open carrier trusts that if the criminal sees their gun they will simply move on to one of the 99% of the potential victims remaining who appears to be unarmed.

    It's funny how some people will point to the open carrier and use the phrase "Wild West", "Dodge City", etc about them. Yet the open carrier is trusting that their gun will never have to leave the holster. The concealed carrier, on the other hand, is the one who is relying upon their "quick draw" skills to win a "gunfight" with a criminal who has already begun to attack them. That sounds more "wild west" to me than simply relying upon the deterrent value of a visible firearm to cause the criminal to think twice about attacking the person carrying the gun.

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Prince William County, VA
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by Keykutter View Post
    I guess that an argument can be made on either side of the issue. Both arguments appear to be valid and each is a no brainer, depending what side you have made your mind up to be the most valid.

    You keep skirting the point I have been dogging you on and keep making this a CC vs OC argument.

    I notice you didn't answer me using your Rosa Parks analogy of her doing what she thought was right in the face of controversy.

    Your insistence on privacy was the only issue I had while you still OC. As I have said, this seems to be a paradox in every sense. Not being noticed while CC'ing or most likely being noticed while OC'ing.

    You say that nobody even notices that you are carrying but I think it is more likely nobody stares, at least when you're looking.

    You will be able to tell this better than I, since you apparently keep files on me for instant recall when you quote me, but from the first time I made comments about OC'ing vs CC'ing in other discussions with other folks, that you injected yourself into, I have come more to the middle.

    As I have stated, I was always a proponent for 'you do what you do but I will Cc', but I still lean toward CC'ing being more conducive to remaining anonymous and unobtrusive.

    I don't walk around thinking that I may be a victim and I am 'almost certain', that in a crowd of three or more, I am not gonna be the one that someone chooses to victimize first, if nothing more than from my physical appearance alone. That in itself would tend to give me the slightest edge and a few extra moments to react by yanking my shirt tail over my piece.

    I will not go into your side of the argument because you have done that exponentially.

    The fact that I feel like I have that particular edge makes me feel safer than the guy who is OC'ing and the BG is looking for a gun to steal and is stealthily stalking someone to steal it from when they are not looking. Being you are who you are and at the top of every game you play, I'm quite certain you feel nobody could ever get the drop on you.

    So, as this will be my last post EVER on what I feel are the merits of each side, unless someone asks me a specific question regarding the subject, I will close in saying that I have been swayed, albeit in the fact that I now have a more open mind about the subject.

    KK
    I would like to chime in to your post here if I may. It has been my experience over the past 4 1/2 that there is more bias with the CC crowd against OC'ing than the other way around. I find this curious for the simple fact that I would bet most people who OC also CC when they perceived the need to do so. And I have heard the arguments about an OC'er being the first to get shot or BG's stalking unknowing OC'ers to get their sidearms, but the facts don't bear either of these positions out at all.

    I have not followed this thread at all but it appears a few folks have had issues with each other and I see that as a shame. When we fight amongst ourselves, we feed the circling sharks (anti's) by giving them ammunition with which to drive us apart. In your post here, you seem to be logical and respectful of others preferences in their choice of carry mode and I respect that. Too bad some other folks can't learn from your take you have posted here.

    FWIW, I OC primarily because I have osteoarthritis in both knees and while mobile, I can no longer run or fight as I was once capable of doing (Virginia is a true man state, i.e., stand your ground). Therefore, I prefer to OC as a warning to those who might wish to do me harm that perhaps they would be better served to find another victim.

    Anyway, whether one prefers to CC or OC is not important in the scheme of things. What IS important is that we carry as often as possible.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  4. #43
    Another thing that is absolutely factual is perception, whether it comes from facts or dreams. The way we perceive things make them an absolute, if only in our minds.

    KK

  5. #44
    I also do both in NC about 50/50. I haven't had a problem either way and dont see what the big deal is. I do like the fact that if I choose to CC, if by chance my EDC becomes visible, I dont have to worry about going to jail unlike in some states. I know my spouse is more comfortable with me CC'ing but still wants to know if I am "packin" (her words) before we head out.
    Due to the increased cost of Ammunition I will be forced to discontinue warning shots as of now! USAF Chief Master Sergeant, Retired, 1979-2005

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotillion View Post
    I started OC last week also. I don't understand how people can wear a gun in their waistband all day long! I've tried 3 different guns and several different holsters with no luck so I went to the gun store and bought an OWB holster and I love it. I still cc in those nono places but that's a personal choice. I've only had 1 comment and that was "nice piece" and a few double takes but no wide eyed crazed people. I do live in medford Oregon which is a small farmer/hunter town. I'm actually shocked I don't see more people carrying. I think people are just afraid of the law. Either way grats on your choice to OC, it feels very liberating haha! I'm currently saving for a pocket .380 and I'm about 2 weeks away, when I finally get it ill probably switch back and forth depending on where I'm going that day.
    I'm just up the road from you near GP and see OC fairly regularly...but then, Medford is the "big city" to us. I had to chuckle yesterday when in one of the local convenience stores and noticed 2 people OCing...and they were not together.

    In case you aren't aware, by the way, your sheriff down there has a rep of being somewhat anti OC (at least compared to ours).

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno NV
    Posts
    174
    Well, it's been nearly two months since I started my grand social experiment. Thought I would post an update.

    So far, in visiting hundreds of places with my gun in plain sight, I have yet to encounter a single person with a negative reaction. I've not even had so much as a dirty look. No store has asked me to leave, not even my bank. A few people have asked me questions about carrying and a few asked about the gun itself. Oddly enough, nobody has ever asked me if it was loaded, which it is. Most people don't even react to it at all though.

    As I said at the start, I've always been one of those folks that was against OC as I believed it would cause a panic. I'm surprised at the public's reaction though. Completely opposite from what I was expecting. Instead of jeers I got cheers. I'm going to keep on OC'n as it's far more comfortable than any IWB I've tried.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    Well, it's been nearly two months since I started my grand social experiment. Thought I would post an update.

    So far, in visiting hundreds of places with my gun in plain sight, I have yet to encounter a single person with a negative reaction. I've not even had so much as a dirty look. No store has asked me to leave, not even my bank. A few people have asked me questions about carrying and a few asked about the gun itself. Oddly enough, nobody has ever asked me if it was loaded, which it is. Most people don't even react to it at all though.

    As I said at the start, I've always been one of those folks that was against OC as I believed it would cause a panic. I'm surprised at the public's reaction though. Completely opposite from what I was expecting. Instead of jeers I got cheers. I'm going to keep on OC'n as it's far more comfortable than any IWB I've tried.
    I actually had 1 negative incident. Nothing major just a wacked out older lady. I was in blockbuster video waiting for stoner bob to get off the phone to check my movies out when I lady came up behind me. After a couple minutes I heard something from her direction and I assumed it was a remark about taking to long so I turned and smiled. She then said "you're carrying a gun?!". To protect my family and myself yes I am. About another minute goes by and she says "I think I'm going to have to call the police". Well just like its my right to protect myself its your right to call the police. At this point I'm finally being helped and she says, "I'm going to need you to stay and talk to them". I'm sorry but I've already been here to long already. "Well if you have nothing to hide then why leave?!" If I had something to hide then I wouldn't have my gun out for the whole world to see lady. I would ask that you please go home and look into your local gun laws so the next time you see a citizen simply using his rights to protect himself that you don't go and harass him too. Have a nice day. And that was that :)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    As I said at the start, I've always been one of those folks that was against OC as I believed it would cause a panic. I'm surprised at the public's reaction though. Completely opposite from what I was expecting. Instead of jeers I got cheers. I'm going to keep on OC'n as it's far more comfortable than any IWB I've tried.
    Most of the strongest anti-open carry comments and sentiment comes from those people who have never tried it in real, everyday life and/or live in repressive states where it is illegal such as Texas and Oklahoma.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    817
    One of the BIGGEST lies is how the media portrays people who carry guns, particulary open carriers as 'wild west gun-slingers' who will cause the streets of America to 'run with the blood of innocents'. When I hear that garbage I feel like getting my hip waders on. Also on my list of garbage is how some(not all) cops look at open carry when they state that they will confront open carriers and force them to 'kiss the ground' while they check out the open carriers story and background. I know a couple of local cops where I live that have told me that if anybody EVER walks down the street in this town with a gun on their hip, NO MATTER HOW LEGAL IT IS, that person should expect to be kissing the ground. Hmmmmmmmmm, is something wrong with this picture? By the way this is not a CC vs OC post as I both OC and CC.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Western Prince William County, VA
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    One of the BIGGEST lies is how the media portrays people who carry guns, particulary open carriers as 'wild west gun-slingers' who will cause the streets of America to 'run with the blood of innocents'. When I hear that garbage I feel like getting my hip waders on. Also on my list of garbage is how some(not all) cops look at open carry when they state that they will confront open carriers and force them to 'kiss the ground' while they check out the open carriers story and background. I know a couple of local cops where I live that have told me that if anybody EVER walks down the street in this town with a gun on their hip, NO MATTER HOW LEGAL IT IS, that person should expect to be kissing the ground. Hmmmmmmmmm, is something wrong with this picture? By the way this is not a CC vs OC post as I both OC and CC.
    If those LEO's were to do that would they get in a world of trouble in your town?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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