Man Files $3 Million Lawsuit After Being Arrested for Lawful Open Carry - Page 4
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Thread: Man Files $3 Million Lawsuit After Being Arrested for Lawful Open Carry

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Have to ask. Why wasn't he put to death or at least sent to prison for the rest of his life with no chance of parole?
    1. The victim failed the traditional "paper bag test".
    2. To the rank and file of the Chicago PD, the public at large are at best "prey", at worst reactive targets.
    3. The perpetrator was a friend of the then police superintendent, Phil Cline.

    Killed on Camera

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gejoslin View Post

    • He ended up eating his gun.







    That means he killed himself before going to court.
    Actually, he ended up killing himself AFTER going to court and being found liable (along with the city) for damages of $12.5 million. That was later reduced to $3 million, as I recall. I don't think he could pay that part of his punitive damages either.

    Did I forget to mention that after getting a THIRTY DAY SUSPENSION... for a MURDER (actually being late for work and out of uniform), he was PROMOTED to detective?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by docmath View Post
    I am all for 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't see the big deal. If an officer ask's me for my I.D., and I'm open carrying, why is it so hard to show him your drivers license. Just like my CHL. If I ever get pulled over, which I never do, the 1st thing I would tell the officer is that I have a CHL and a firearm with me, including it's location, whether or not it's hot, or in some cases let him know it's open with nothing in the magazine and the magazine is not installed and nothing chambered. If you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't have a concern. I don't like the gestapo tactics, but arguing with 2 cops with a loaded firearm on your hip and no ID is just flat out stupid and a losing proposition. Why wouldn't you have your ID with you? I carry my ID whenever I leave the house. What if this guy was a felon and just made up a name, are they supposed to take his word for it? I guess the real question is are your rights being trampled on if you are carrying a cannon on your hip, and you are simply asked if they can see your ID?
    Do you think someone who is a threat to the officer, who plans on shooting the officer, is going to notify the officer that they have a gun? No! The officer is going to find out when he's being shot at. So if I don't plan on harming the officer, why in the hell does he need to know I have a gun any more than he needs to know that I have my house keys in my pocket? The fact that I own a gun and have one with me is MY business. And if he were a criminal who either was in possession of a firearm illegally, or he was about to commit a crime, then most likely he wouldn't have been stupid enough to be open carrying.

    You may not have a problem with giving them your I.D. if they ask for it, but what is it about legally carrying a gun that made them inquire upon his identity? The fact is, some cops think they're the only ones who have the right to carry guns and anyone else who does is obviously a criminal. So you just go ahead and bend over for every cop you come across and spill your guts about your guns thinking you're making a friend. But if they want my respect, they're gonna have to earn it. You're not gonna treat me like an a$$hole and then expect me to give you a bunch if "yes sirs" in return. I can't stand it when people they out the "they work for me" BS, but my opinion is, just because they have a badge, a gun, and draw a government paycheck does not automatically grant them my respect.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmath View Post
    I am all for 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't see the... (bs deleted) ... I guess the real question is are your rights being trampled on if you are carrying a cannon on your hip, and you are simply asked if they can see your ID?
    All for the 2nd, the 4th not so much, huh? I seriously doubt you are for the 2nd.

    The answer is yes, they are unless the officer has legitimate reason to suspect you are about to commit or have committed a crime.

    The problem with ignoramuses who don't see the harm in their rights being taken away is that when they condone it or allow it to happen to them, it sets a precedent that potentially affects everyone else.

    Fyi, this is America. We're not required to "show our papers" here.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by docmath View Post
    If you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't have a concern. I don't like the gestapo tactics, but arguing with 2 cops with a loaded firearm on your hip and no ID is just flat out stupid and a losing proposition.
    If I'm not doing anything wrong, why are they presuming I'm in the wrong and trying to be a nuance? We are innocent until proven guilty by law and giving unnecessary info to cops is asking for trouble. See the video.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...uC4OsrDdtmrtJA

  7. Quote Originally Posted by docmath View Post
    I am all for 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't see the big deal. If an officer ask's me for my I.D., and I'm open carrying, why is it so hard to show him your drivers license. Just like my CHL. If I ever get pulled over, which I never do, the 1st thing I would tell the officer is that I have a CHL and a firearm with me, including it's location, whether or not it's hot, or in some cases let him know it's open with nothing in the magazine and the magazine is not installed and nothing chambered. If you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't have a concern. I don't like the gestapo tactics, but arguing with 2 cops with a loaded firearm on your hip and no ID is just flat out stupid and a losing proposition. Why wouldn't you have your ID with you? I carry my ID whenever I leave the house. What if this guy was a felon and just made up a name, are they supposed to take his word for it? I guess the real question is are your rights being trampled on if you are carrying a cannon on your hip, and you are simply asked if they can see your ID?
    Doc, we all see your opinion to it being perfectly fine for an officer to detain you and demand you produce a license because he merely sees you openly carrying. I have to ask though, are you of the same opinion that an officer has the authority to detain and demand the license of anyone he merely sees driving?
    Why is the licensed activity of driving different than the licensed activity of carrying a weapon? (Assuming that carrying openly is either legal or licensed in your state.)

    Of course it's no big deal if the officer asks for your ID, but funny thing is, what do you think will be his reaction if you ask for his state issued ID that shows HIS home address? If he has nothing to hide, why should he object, right?

    Now as to why wouldn't I have my ID on me. Why Should I? I'm not buying wine or beer, I'm not cashing a check (and my bank knows me enough not to even want to see identification) and I'm not purchasing any airline tickets. What need have I for identification?

    Having identification does not prove or disprove criminal conduct. The ONLY reason Officer Friendly wants identification is to see if he can make an arrest on a warrant if he hasn't probable cause to make an arrest for what he has detained someone for.


    In my state, the only time I'm required to produce my driving license is ... when stopped for a traffic violation
    The only time I'm required to produce identification papers is .... never.
    The only time I'm required to produce my weapons license is .... never.
    And I'm quite happy to keep it that way.

    Allowing officers to detain and conduct criminal investigations on the basis of "How do we know you aren't a felon?" or "How do we know you aren't _________" completely destroys any protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment. If one allows officers to conduct a detention to see if someone is a felon based upon the mere sighting of a legal instrument (in this case a firearm) then where does it end?
    Allowing detentions to see if someone is prohibited from driving because they have a DUI based merely upon the police seeing someone drive an automobile?
    Allowing detentions to see if someone is consuming illegal, recreational drugs because they see merely see someone pop a TicTac or vitamin pill?
    Allowing detentions to see if someone is a prostitute merely because they see someone is female and is necessarily equipped to be $2 crack 'ho'?
    Allowing detentions to see if someone is a rapist merely because they see someone is male and necessarily equipped to be a rapist?

  8. Law enforcement officers don't need to know the laws, just enforce them.

    Yes, part of the above was penned in jest, but part of it is an unfortunate truth in America; many cops need remedial training on many fronts. Start by addressing the God complex, and work their way up to socially accepted, professional service, if that is possible any more.

    Is it any wonder that law-abiding citizens who have been illegally treated want to kick their asses?

    One officer here couldn't take the taunts (you are a wimp without your gun, I bet I could kick your ass if you took all your crap off) of an arrested man any longer at the station, and removed his firearm, baton, mace, cuffs (and the prisoner's) and other accessories, and they proceeded to square-off and go at it. It was stopped by other officers.

    The officer was charged, and fired. His supervisor admonished him, that removing his gear on duty tarnished his reputation, as he was no longer a police officer on duty, but a criminal thug to be jailed and charged.

    Now, if only the departments would charge and jail LEOs that engage in this abuse, while still wearing the uniform and tools-of-the-trade.
    I'm a firm believer in two term limits for all politicians; one in office, the other in prison.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by r1derbike View Post
    Law enforcement officers don't need to know the laws, just enforce them.

    Yes, part of the above was penned in jest, but part of it is an unfortunate truth in America; many cops need remedial training on many fronts. Start by addressing the God complex, and work their way up to socially accepted, professional service, if that is possible any more.

    Is it any wonder that law-abiding citizens who have been illegally treated want to kick their asses?

    One officer here couldn't take the taunts (you are a wimp without your gun, I bet I could kick your ass if you took all your crap off) of an arrested man any longer at the station, and removed his firearm, baton, mace, cuffs (and the prisoner's) and other accessories, and they proceeded to square-off and go at it. It was stopped by other officers.

    The officer was charged, and fired. His supervisor admonished him, that removing his gear on duty tarnished his reputation, as he was no longer a police officer on duty, but a criminal thug to be jailed and charged.

    Now, if only the departments would charge and jail LEOs that engage in this abuse, while still wearing the uniform and tools-of-the-trade.
    Not so sure that would be a bad thing, maybe we should let a unarmed cop beat the hell out of some ******* that really needs it, even up, one on one, no weapons, problems come up when the cops do this all the time, to anybody,
    Bad Guys of the world beware the next time you think about jumping on a old guy, because its a fair bet he's to old to fight and probably to fat to run, but can put one in your eye at 50ft with his weak hand

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Bozz View Post
    IMHO, he makes all of us law abiding citizens look like baffoons.
    How about it was the police officers who make law abiding police officers look like baffoons - or jack booted thugs.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by docmath View Post
    I am all for 2nd amendment rights, but I really don't see the big deal. If an officer ask's me for my I.D., and I'm open carrying, why is it so hard to show him your drivers license. Just like my CHL. If I ever get pulled over, which I never do, the 1st thing I would tell the officer is that I have a CHL and a firearm with me, including it's location, whether or not it's hot, or in some cases let him know it's open with nothing in the magazine and the magazine is not installed and nothing chambered. If you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't have a concern. I don't like the gestapo tactics, but arguing with 2 cops with a loaded firearm on your hip and no ID is just flat out stupid and a losing proposition. Why wouldn't you have your ID with you? I carry my ID whenever I leave the house. What if this guy was a felon and just made up a name, are they supposed to take his word for it? I guess the real question is are your rights being trampled on if you are carrying a cannon on your hip, and you are simply asked if they can see your ID?
    Officer: "Mr. docmath, I am going to have to hold on to that firearm for my safety, until I can verify that your CHL is valid. While I am checking to see if your CHL is valid, I am also going to check the serial number of your gun to ensure that it is not stolen, which I know you won't mind me doing because you have nothing to hide. By the way, do you have any other items that might be used as weapon, such as knives?"

    docmath: "Ummm....well, yes, I guess I have a knife in my fishing tackle box."

    Officer: "Mr. docmath, you won't mind showing me the knife, after all you have nothing to hide, right?"

    docmath: "No sir, I don't mind at all because, like you said I have nothing to hide. Let me pop open the trunk for you, so you can see the knife in the tackle box."

    Officer: "Mr. docmath, this knife that you have here has a fixed blade that it 4 and 1/2 inches long."

    docmath: "I suppose so..."

    Officer: "Mr. docmath, I am going to have to arrest you for a misdemeanor for possession of a fixed blade knife with a length over 4 inches long because that is illegal by the city ordinance in our fair city here."

    Just because you have nothing to hide is never a guarantee they won't find something. I refuse to waive my rights to be secure in my papers and personal effects just because "I have nothing to hide."
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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