Washington Open Carrier Awarded $15k Settlement After Cop Drew Gun on Him - Page 2
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Thread: Washington Open Carrier Awarded $15k Settlement After Cop Drew Gun on Him

  1. #11

    Why LOOK for confrontation???

    Come on people - with all the bad press against legal owners of firearms, shouldn't we be using some common sense in AVOIDING confrontations? So the cop was misinformed - if the citizen had simply complied WHILE informing the cop of the facts, we would have had another cop a bit more informed and maybe a bit more appreciative of our manners instead of an officer now holding a real grudge against us. We need all the support we can muster instead of alienating those who can make our lives more miserable!

    I won't get on my soapbox about open carry, but I certainly don't want ANYONE to know I am carrying - why give up the advantage of surprise?

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by downwind View Post
    Come on people - with all the bad press against legal owners of firearms, shouldn't we be using some common sense in AVOIDING confrontations? So the cop was misinformed - if the citizen had simply complied WHILE informing the cop of the facts, we would have had another cop a bit more informed and maybe a bit more appreciative of our manners instead of an officer now holding a real grudge against us. We need all the support we can muster instead of alienating those who can make our lives more miserable!

    I won't get on my soapbox about open carry, but I certainly don't want ANYONE to know I am carrying - why give up the advantage of surprise?
    How about the police use common sense and do their jobs properly? This is not a case of a misinformed cop, it's a case of an out of control cop, who confronted and threatened a law abiding citizen illegally. Do you have any idea what the constitution says other than the second half of the 2A? And why it's all important?

    Complying and submission does not earn you friends...it just empowers those to KEEP making your life miserable.

    Your "advantage of surprise" is actually just being behind the curve when a criminal (who doesn't know your carrying because you don't want ANYONE knowing) thinks your a good target and chooses you as a victim. Someone who would give up deterrence to try and play quick draw with a bad guy who all ready has used his surprise and has the upper hand is fool hardy. Good luck with that.
    One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one. Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
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    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by downwind View Post
    Come on people - with all the bad press against legal owners of firearms, shouldn't we be using some common sense in AVOIDING confrontations? So the cop was misinformed - if the citizen had simply complied WHILE informing the cop of the facts, we would have had another cop a bit more informed and maybe a bit more appreciative of our manners instead of an officer now holding a real grudge against us. We need all the support we can muster instead of alienating those who can make our lives more miserable!

    I won't get on my soapbox about open carry, but I certainly don't want ANYONE to know I am carrying - why give up the advantage of surprise?

    Dude (or dudette) you need to read lots more threads on here and other places to learn what your rights are and why they are so important.... You come across as either a badgefluffer or a naive beginner (nothing wrong with the 2nd one, just dont stay that way)


    Complying with a thug/bully only further strengthens them to be a bigger thug/bully, not the other way around as you think/believe....

  5. #14
    I expect more form a trained law enforcement officer. A big part of completing the police academy is the legal courses. You would think a trained officer who hold his hand up, takes an oath to uphold the law would know the basic law of open carry in his state. Michigan has always been an OC state. It is not about rather you want to OC or CC. It is about not being hassled when you OC. The police expect you as a concealed carrier to know the law of concealed carry. I can guarantee you that you are going to jail if you are caught with out your CPL/CCW license because at that point you are considered having a concealed weapon which is illegal. If we must know the law that law enforcement should know the law.

  6. #15
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    Sep 2007
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    Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by OM44 View Post
    Well, I understand most of this post. However, I am confused by the statement that
    the citizen refused to hand over his ID. That would seem, at first look, to have
    exacerbated the officer's confusion and anger.

    I wonder what would have happened had he has simply shown the officer his ID.
    Kinda like letting a police officer search your car. If he has no warrant then he needs your permission. You're free to tell him no, just like this guy was free to refuse to show the officer his I.D. If you're not required to, the fact that an officer gets agitated over it doesn't somehow make it become mandatory.

    Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 4
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  7. Quote Originally Posted by downwind View Post
    Why LOOK for confrontation???
    Excuse me. He was walking his dog in the park. I fail to see how that is looking for confrontation.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #17
    I guess I came off as nave with my response to the post of consequences when resisting the law. I don't know of many who have actually been in "confrontation" with an LEO, but talking from experience, it's a LOT smarter to use diplomacy. Yes, I am very well versed with our Constitution, not just the 2nd Amendment, and I also keep up on gun laws in my area. However, the cop had the gun drawn - scary to anyone else other than me? Say he was real nervous & say the citizen reached for his wallet then, and the LEO thought he was reaching for a weapon and drilled him? The cop was wrong & the citizen was right, but DEAD! All I was trying to emphasize was that deescalating the situation should have been the primary goal - THEN rake the cop over the coals in the proper manner, if that rings your bell. I still stand that educating the cop in a respectful manner would go a long way in future relations. Just look how HIS actions have spurred up reactions in this post and think about how different feelings would be if he approached the citizen in a more sensible manner? I am not a pacifist in any shape or form, but I really believe discretion is the better part of valor.

  9. Downwind,

    We understand that your opinion is to appease Officer Friendly, and then take it up later if desired. The biggest problem with that theory, however, is that the more a person voluntarily appeases Officer Friendly, the less standing they have in court, should the case have to go to court. A police officer cannot violate your rights that you voluntarily waive.

    Some of us value our 4th amendment rights as much as we do our 2nd amendment rights. John Laigaie was diplomatic, respectful, and did nothing to escalate the situation. He merely refused to waive any of his rights, even at gun point.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #19
    Navy, THAT'S what I am talking about - your response made a whole lot of sense to me, given in a rational & unemotional manner, causing me to rethink my actions and words. GOOD ADVICE, thanks.

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by downwind View Post
    I guess I came off as nave with my response to the post of consequences when resisting the law. I don't know of many who have actually been in "confrontation" with an LEO, but talking from experience, it's a LOT smarter to use diplomacy. Yes, I am very well versed with our Constitution, not just the 2nd Amendment, and I also keep up on gun laws in my area. However, the cop had the gun drawn - scary to anyone else other than me? Say he was real nervous & say the citizen reached for his wallet then, and the LEO thought he was reaching for a weapon and drilled him? The cop was wrong & the citizen was right, but DEAD! All I was trying to emphasize was that deescalating the situation should have been the primary goal - THEN rake the cop over the coals in the proper manner, if that rings your bell. I still stand that educating the cop in a respectful manner would go a long way in future relations. Just look how HIS actions have spurred up reactions in this post and think about how different feelings would be if he approached the citizen in a more sensible manner? I am not a pacifist in any shape or form, but I really believe discretion is the better part of valor.
    As described in your post through waiving your rights the PD has the upper hand will rake you over the coals.`
    ~
    Keeping a department on the defensive with your rights intact forces the issue of negligence on behalf of their department by an officer. This is going to cost them dollars, dollars that are in short supply, or will be forfeited by their bonding company that will in turn charge them more for the contract to cover the department.
    ~
    That is going to put them in a situation dealing with the officers education of state law, instead of being able to white wash his ignorance because you surrendered you rights under the law. Officers being aware of gun laws and their interacting properly with law abiding citizens is what we all strive to have happen when an encounter has to take place. Most states recognize that just openly carrying a weapon is NOT grounds for an officer to detain and/or question a citizen in and by itself. So if you aren't doing anything wrong why should you submit to any illegal intervention by any officer?
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

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