Negative LEO Open Carry Encounter in Georgia - Page 3
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Thread: Negative LEO Open Carry Encounter in Georgia

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Not completely true. A half truth is the same as lying by omission. In WI, if a stop is solely because the officer saw you open carrying, then it is in violation of the 4th amendment. They may not imply in any form that it is mandatory that you speak to them or show ID, though they may ask. State AG (J.B Van Hollen) is very clear about the state's position on terry stops.
    You are reading into what I said, let me say it again. A cop has the same right to walk up to you and ask you questions (AKA engage in conversation) that I do, that's not a violation of any law. But as you pointed out he can't make me answer questions and he can't imply that I'm required to answer questions and he can't stop me and run the serial number on my gun just because I'm open carrying (which I wouldn't be)

    But in a public place he can walk up to me and talk to me all day long
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    That's ridiculous. The cop has every right and authority to establish the encounter. Its a MWAG complaint and undoubtedly has causation to see the gun license and to conduct a field interview. Its the pitfalls of OC. If the LEOs attitude sucked well...he probably has better things to do. But the investigation concluded and everyone went on their way.

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    actually "NO" if there was a MWG call then he would have checked it out. but if the subject was not doing anything illegal then the LEO has no business interfering with the subject. really no more then if there was no gun involved. it is a lot like a person just walking down the street minding his business. if he is not doing something illegal then he should be left alone

    now a question i have on my mind, isn't GA a open carry state? do you have to have a permit to OC in GA?

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    the libtards are pushing through laws that say you cannot discriminate based on background checks that show criminal records for minor crimes
    I hire who I want. Period. Always have, always will. I'm not discriminating, he's just not the best qualified candidate for the job.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    actually "NO" if there was a MWG call then he would have checked it out. but if the subject was not doing anything illegal then the LEO has no business interfering with the subject. really no more then if there was no gun involved. it is a lot like a person just walking down the street minding his business. if he is not doing something illegal then he should be left alone

    now a question i have on my mind, isn't GA a open carry state? do you have to have a permit to OC in GA?
    The encounter is established to confirm the legality of the firearm possession. If there was question of intimidation or brandishing because his shirt kept exposing it and concealing it then the LEO has a means to the encounter. This all of course is through the mind of Susie soccer mom and what she doesn't know to be the law. But the LEO has to respond regardless.

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  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I hire who I want. Period. Always have, always will. I'm not discriminating, he's just not the best qualified candidate for the job.
    that could make you into a employer who discriminates based on criminal records and like I said there is movement to disallow an employer to pull criminal records on people they are considering hiring.
    YMMV

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    That's ridiculous. The cop has every right and authority to establish the encounter. Its a MWAG complaint and undoubtedly has causation to see the gun license and to conduct a field interview. Its the pitfalls of OC. If the LEOs attitude sucked well...he probably has better things to do. But the investigation concluded and everyone went on their way.
    You need to brush up on your case law bud. Deberry v. US established that possession of a legally carried firearm is not reasonable suspicion for commission of a crime and therefore, alone, is not grounds for a terry stop, or "field interview" as you call it. Regardless of whether somebody called him in or not, unless he committed a crime the cop has no authority to detain him or compel him to answer questions.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    You need to brush up on your case law bud. Deberry v. US established that possession of a legally carried firearm is not reasonable suspicion for commission of a crime and therefore, alone, is not grounds for a terry stop, or "field interview" as you call it. Regardless of whether somebody called him in or not, unless he committed a crime the cop has no authority to detain him or compel him to answer questions.
    At least as far as the Fourth Amendment is concerned, police do not have to have any degree of reasonable suspicion in order to accost a person and say they want to talk to him.  Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 497-98, 103 S.Ct. 1319, 1323-24, 75 L.Ed.2d 229 (1983) (plurality opinion);  United States v. Rodriguez, 69 F.3d 136, 141 (7th Cir.1995);  United States v. Serna-Barreto, supra, 842 F.2d at 966.   The “reason” for this rule, if it can be called a reason, is that the mere accosting of a person is not a search or seizure of him, and so is not within the amendment's scope.   This seems a little feeble, since very few people think themselves free not to stop if a policeman accosts them.   But the law is well established that if the officer asks rather than commands, the person accosted is not seized, and so the protections of the Fourth Amendment do not attach.
    "It is not malicious acts that will do us in but the appalling silence and indifference of good people. All that is needed for evil to run rampant is for good women and men to do nothing." -MLK Jr Current Carry: Ruger SR40c

  9. Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    The encounter is established to confirm the legality of the firearm possession. If there was question of intimidation or brandishing because his shirt kept exposing it and concealing it then the LEO has a means to the encounter. This all of course is through the mind of Susie soccer mom and what she doesn't know to be the law. But the LEO has to respond regardless.

    Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    You need to brush up on your case law bud. Deberry v. US established that possession of a legally carried firearm is not reasonable suspicion for commission of a crime and therefore, alone, is not grounds for a terry stop, or "field interview" as you call it. Regardless of whether somebody called him in or not, unless he committed a crime the cop has no authority to detain him or compel him to answer questions.
    JCREEK is right DAD45, just because someone is open carrying, is not RAS. Put it this way, would the LEO have the same "responsibility" to stop someone, while that person is walking down the street with sunglasses on. who knows he could be trying to hide his identity. he could have just robbed a store, and they are looking for someone with sunglasses (too vague a reason). or, maybe a better example is that, someone is just suspicious of the man with the sunglasses. would that be sufficient reason to stop him? would there be a reasonable RAS for the stop. in NYC yes, but i don't think so, in this nation
    i would still like to know if you have the right to carry in GA, or is it a privilege? do you have to have a permit to carry?

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    JCREEK is right DAD45, just because someone is open carrying, is not RAS. Put it this way, would the LEO have the same "responsibility" to stop someone, while that person is walking down the street with sunglasses on. who knows he could be trying to hide his identity. he could have just robbed a store, and they are looking for someone with sunglasses (too vague a reason). or, maybe a better example is that, someone is just suspicious of the man with the sunglasses. would that be sufficient reason to stop him? would there be a reasonable RAS for the stop. in NYC yes, but i don't think so, in this nation
    i would still like to know if you have the right to carry in GA, or is it a privilege? do you have to have a permit to carry?
    I understand all that. My point is, is that given the information provided by a "concerned citizen" if the op's shirt flipped up and down is being interpreted as a brandishing or as an act to intimidate or whatever the excuse, it requires an investigation. Seeing someone walking down the street w a firearm and no specific concern or law violation is being committed then it shouldn't produce an encounter. Not unlike someone complaining that someone is speeding and calls the cops. When the cop finds the suspect car and doesn't witness a violation, then they cannot pull the vehicle over. If the complaint is they saw the driver wave a gun out the window, they can initiate the stop that way. Again, State laws differ but in the given examples is how probable cause can be instituted to make a lawful encounter and request for info.

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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by grovemonkey View Post
    I've been open carrying for the past 6 months here in Georgia with no problems from LEO, until today. While at the park with my wife and kids we were just finishing and about to leave when a LEO approached me out of the blue and asked me to follow him. I complied and he asked for my license. I complied but asked him why I was being stopped and why it was necessary. I had my gun on my side and while we were at the park I did cover up with my shirt a few times and eventually just gave up and kept my gun out. Well, a few people in the park must have called the police because the LEO was accusing me of committing assault by uncovering and covering my firearm. I was shocked. I didn't speak with anyone other than two people who were non-issues. This LEO was a real character too, trying to verbally bully me by asking why I felt it was necessary to carry in a park at my age? At the same time saying he's all for the 2nd amendment but also acting like a real tough guy throughout the interaction. He ran my background (which zero marks on it) while I kept asking if I was free to go, etc. The whole event was ridiculous. Eventually they gave me my ID's back and let me go without anything.

    After researching Assault law, it's an easy law for a LEO to abuse in this situation. If you do something, like uncover your shirt revealing your firearm and it makes someone feel threatened, then I guess that could be considered simple and possibly aggravated assault.

    While I wasn't arrested, it was an annoying encounter that highlights that you have to be careful when you open carry in public places.
    I was all set to write you about Terry vs. OH (a court decision every American should be familiar with) and to let you know that a LEO cannot stop you for open carry in an open carry state until I looked up GA's laws. Wow... how screwy, you need a permit to open carry I found out. I couldn't find in GA law however whether when LEO sees an open carry person, whether he can detain them for proof of having a GA permit/license. Anyone know that answer?

    I know in PA, if you are concealed carrying (legal WITH a license) and then uncover (legal WITHOUT a license) then any LEO may detain you for proof of a license. The reason is because you were doing something that needed a license and then did something that didn't. However, if you were ONLY open carrying, the cop may not detain you... sure ask you questions as a mere encounter, but not detain you.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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