What to say to an open carry visitor at church? - Page 11
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Thread: What to say to an open carry visitor at church?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I keep reading how welcoming and accepting your churches are and how just anyone that shows up is welcome to come and worship with you and I have to ask myself how true is that really?

    If a person that was drunk and disorderly showed up at your church and disrupted your service by shouting hallelujah at the top of his lungs over and over again would you be “welcoming and tolerant “or would you try to quite him down or remove him from the service so that the other parishioners could get something from the message?
    What if a practicing homosexual couple who clearly had no intention of addressing the sinful nature of their relationship showed up in your congregation every Sunday and flaunted their status in your face?

    What about a guy that was sleeping with his stepmother?

    You say you welcome prostitutes, does that mean you allow them to turn tricks in your parking lot?

    Now if you tell me that you would allow this in your church I number one don’t believe you and more importantly would point out to you that your church isn’t following Scriptural principles.

    Do a word search in the Old Testament for the words “cut off” and see just how many times God indicated that specific behaviors were unacceptable and unacceptable to the point that anyone who practiced them was to be removed from the congregation.

    But Cypher, we’re not under Old Testament law you say and you’re correct. So let’s look at the New Testament where Jesus Himself gave specific instructions on how to break fellowship with a believer who refused to repent of his sin. (Matthew Chapter 16)

    How about the Acts of the Apostles where Peter disfellowshiped Simon the sorcerer for refusing to truly repent. How about Acts chapter five where Ananias and Saphira were disfellowshiped in a big why for lying to the Holy Spirit one time?

    1 Corinthians, Paul publically chastises the church at Corinth for fellowshipping with a man who is living in blatant sexual sin and specifically instructs them to disfellowship the man but to restore him to the church immediately upon his repentance. Paul also states that we are to have nothing to do with a person who claims to be a believer but continues on in a willful pattern of sin.

    Throughout the rest of the Pauline Epistles Paul named specific believers who have been removed from the congregation or disciplined for various sins?
    Are those examples Scriptural or not?

    Unless you are reading a different Bible than I am there clearly are guidelines for acceptable behavior in a church as well as a process for removing members who refuse to adhere to those guidelines.

    Nowhere in Scripture are we admonished to allow people to disrupt the service and keep everyone from gaining any benefit from the time of fellowship.
    If there is a Scriptural precedent I’d like to see it.
    Your post is so full of man judging his fellow man it is ... just sad.

    Another thing that is sad is that you felt compelled to tried to use ridicule in an attempt to diminish and demean.

    Just understand that considering your postings so far... and the one above in particular... I have no doubt your "church" is NOT a place I want to be. Nor am I believing that targeting an open carrier with armed security actually provides any "security".... nor does it have anything to do with any disturbances but has everything to do with the fears of the few who run the "church".

    But again.......... it is your "church" and your congregation can do whatever it wishes therein. I respect that. However... I will never lend even one instant of validation to any of that by stepping onto that property or into that building... but y'all can do whatever you want.

    One last time... it is your "church" and y'all can do whatever you wish there.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As far as expecting me to research your particular shooter incident... did you provide cites and/or links to the incident and I missed them? Or did you expect me to research it all on my own?
    I never mentioned that I attend any particular church by name, because I participate here for my entertainment not as a spokesperson for any denomination or church body another of your member posted a link to the New Life Church shooting and stated that I must be a member . In any case there is a link in this thread
    Indeed? Yet there was no mention of if that link provided by someone else referenced the actual incident. Nice try to evade.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post

    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And apparently you missed my post a while back where I said I do not attend any "church" so I have no idea what you read in Wikipedia about what you think is my church (no cites or links)... and the reasons I do not attend any "church" are reflected in your posts about your church. Your posts have only reinforced my decision to not attend any "church" that has the attitudes expressed in your posts.
    Again, “I don’t attend any church because they don’t do it my way but by God I’ll sure tell you how you should do it”
    Your response can also be read as:

    "If you don't do it the way my church says you should do it we will throw you out."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post

    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As for you to use ridicule with that "self proclaimed experts on my church" crap.... I've repeatedly mentioned that it is your "church" and y'all can do whatever you want there. I have even said that I respect that.
    You’ve also made repeated negative references to my church veiled behind “now if this doesn’t apply it doesn’t apply”
    Did I resort to ridicule? Or did I make negative references that you didn't like?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    But all that doesn't even matter... because the thing that I really do not care for is shrouding an anti open carry prejudice under the cloak of "providing security"... and just assuming that an open carrier would automatically create a disturbance.
    I hate to say this but open carry would automatically create a distraction (not necessarily a disturbance unless it was one of you guys) just by being there. Also please remember that I never said we’d walk you out then and there. I said we’d explain our policy (that’s within our rights right?) and ask you to comply after service and if you stated your intent not to comply we’d ask you not to return.

    If you respect our rights to make that policy why do you keep trying to convince ( who has no discretion over it) me to change it
    Just because I am pointing out the failures of your "security" policy why do you think I trying to convince you to change it?

    Please see how much much of a judgmental attitude is expressed in the part of your post I put in bold... why would anyone want to attend a church that has that attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    PS perhaps you can address my post 94?
    PS... I did. See post #101

  4. #103
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    Matthew 18:16 Jesus' own words

    A Brother Who Trespasses
    15Moreover if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone: if he shall hear you, you have gained your brother.
    16But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto you as a heathen man and a tax collector.
    1st Corinthians 5 1-11
    1 Corinthians 5
    King James Version (KJV)
    5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
    2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
    3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
    4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
    8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
    9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

    10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
    11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
    Now thats either Scriptural or it isn't
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  5. #104
    It says in Romans 16:17-19.
    17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are to the teachings you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

    What I get from these verses is that we should welcome any and all who wish to come to church, BUT if they come to cause divisions and trouble then they should be asked to leave. We are to love the person but hate their sin. That can be the hardest job because some people do not want to be separated from their sin. The church is God's House and should be treated with the same respect as you expect anyone who enters your home.

    The only way I would carry into a church is concealed and with the Pastor and Elders permission even though I would not need their permission. I do not carry when I go to church and have never asked for permission. I have to much respect for the church and God to do that. But the way things are going there may come a day when I will carry in church with or without their permission.

    Cypher asks if we would welcome prostitutes. The answer would be YES! He also asked we would allow them to turn tricks in the parking lot. The answer to that is NO! I would have to ask cypher if he would allow prostitutes into his home and allow them to turn tricks in his driveway? He may allow them to enter his home but I really doubt he would allow them to turn tricks in his driveway.

    At least that is what I would do but others may not allow the sinner into their home but allow them to sin in their driveway.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by vernsimpson View Post
    It says in Romans 16:17-19.
    17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are to the teachings you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

    What I get from these verses is that we should welcome any and all who wish to come to church, BUT if they come to cause divisions and trouble then they should be asked to leave. We are to love the person but hate their sin. That can be the hardest job because some people do not want to be separated from their sin. The church is God's House and should be treated with the same respect as you expect anyone who enters your home.
    I am in basic agreement with this




    Quote Originally Posted by vernsimpson View Post
    Cypher asks if we would welcome prostitutes.
    For the record Cypher doesn't remember ever asking that question

    Quote Originally Posted by vernsimpson View Post
    The answer would be YES! He also asked we would allow them to turn tricks in the parking lot. The answer to that is NO! I would have to ask cypher if he would allow prostitutes into his home and allow them to turn tricks in his driveway? He may allow them to enter his home but I really doubt he would allow them to turn tricks in his driveway.

    At least that is what I would do but others may not allow the sinner into their home but allow them to sin in their driveway.
    According to your buddies here if Cypher doesn't allow the prostitutes to turn tricks in his driveway he's being judgemental
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  7. #106
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    Open carry is the devil.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #107
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    Shows of hands: Who thinks the OP has long since stopped checking this thread?
    "It is not malicious acts that will do us in but the appalling silence and indifference of good people. All that is needed for evil to run rampant is for good women and men to do nothing." -MLK Jr Current Carry: Ruger SR40c

  9. #108
    Only if he's smart. Doubt he anticipated the sort of abuse some of these fatheads gave him for an honest question. Seems to me that those who don't go to church or believe in "my own god," which is idolatry, should have kept out of it. It was obvious that many had no desire to fellowship with churchgoers, so I doubt the carry question was the real reason for their ire. Oh well, so goes the forum. Real nice guys.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Open carry is the devil.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    Only jerks who want to scare small children open carry.

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfisch View Post
    Shows of hands: Who thinks the OP has long since stopped checking this thread?
    Didn't he state as much in his last post? I was actually kind of hopping he'd comeback for the free for all that happened after he left so he could see the true face on some of the folks that were "advising" him
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

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