What to say to an open carry visitor at church? - Page 16
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Thread: What to say to an open carry visitor at church?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstonebeach View Post
    I have read and in some cases re-read some of these posts. It seems to me that one thing overlooked is the fact that churches are made of people - people of many ideas, feelings and biases. Not everyone is comfortable with the show of guns. That does not make them bad people, just unenlightened, as are many on race, color, financial standing or some other ideology. I remember a church that thought only Republicans could be Christian. Dumb, but there is no accounting for learned behavior. The point here is that the presence of a gun does upset some. That is not judgment, just a fact in society. So if carrying openly will cause dissention in any group, church or otherwise, it seems common sense to not cause the problem. If how one carries is more important than allowing a smooth flow, be it religious, political, social or otherwise, are we willing to be the problem just to make a point? If so, then it is us who are the problem. So how about we just move on to some other issue over which to argue, chastise or castigate.
    Are you saying if doing nothing but standing there minding my own business while carrying a firearm causes a disturbance in the flow, I'm the problem?

    Does this go for other aspects of life as well? Say being male? Being Asian? Being an American? All those aspects disturb the flow for some people...but it would still be my problem?

    It's funny, those that oppose open carry, come into the open carry thread, cause dissension, and it's not a problem. To bad we can't expect the same in return.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Hebrews 4:15 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

    2 Corinthians 5:21
    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    In this Gospel episode Jesus and his disciples travel to Jerusalem for Passover, where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.[1][2] In the Gospel of John Jesus refers to the Temple as "my Father’s house" thus in some views making a claim to being the Son of God[3] although it is common in the Abrahamic religions to refer to God as God the Father.
    Some Christians think this is the only account of Jesus using physical force in any of the Gospels. Eastern Orthodox reject this idea. The narrative occurs near the end of the Synoptic Gospels (at Mark 11:15–19, 11:27–33, Matthew 21:12–17, 21:23–27 and Luke 19:45–48, 20:1–8) and near the start in the Gospel of John (at John 2:13–16). Some scholars believe that these refer to two separate incidents, given that the Gospel of John also includes more than one Passover.[4]
    Cleansing of the Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The article states that there may be other victims.

  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    It's funny, those that oppose open carry, come into the open carry thread, cause dissension, and it's not a problem. To bad we can't expect the same in return.
    Would that be like a guy that comes here to start a thread asking about the proper way to implement an no open carry policy and instead of actual answers gets dog piled by everyone in the thread?
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Cleansing of the Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The article states that there may be other victims.
    Why didn’t you post this in the first place? I always accept a Wikipedia article posted by a Muslim as authoritative commentary on the Bible and the Life of Jesus Christ.

    Guess I might as well throw away my Bible and convert
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    By all means please expound on the meaning of Romans 14 to me
    Romans 14: Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

    So, it would seem that those who are "disturbed" by the person openly carrying a firearm (not doing anything else "out of the ordinary", just carrying a handgun in a holster on their belt) are the ones that Paul says are weak in faith. So - I must ask - sure, Romans 14:21 says not to eat meat around my brothers who are "weak in faith" and their faith still tells them that eating meat is a sin. But what are you doing to attempt to strengthen their faith? And, Romans 14 is talking about what some people consider to be "sinful" and avoided, is anyone that is "disturbed" by the firearm also claiming it to be sinful?

    And then I have to ask this. In verse 13 Paul says, "13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another." and yet wasn't that EXACTLY what he did in verse one when he said those that ate vegetables only were weak in faith?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Romans 14: Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

    So, it would seem that those who are "disturbed" by the person openly carrying a firearm (not doing anything else "out of the ordinary", just carrying a handgun in a holster on their belt) are the ones that Paul says are weak in faith. So - I must ask - sure, Romans 14:21 says not to eat meat around my brothers who are "weak in faith" and their faith still tells them that eating meat is a sin. But what are you doing to attempt to strengthen their faith? And, Romans 14 is talking about what some people consider to be "sinful" and avoided, is anyone that is "disturbed" by the firearm also claiming it to be sinful?

    And then I have to ask this. In verse 13 Paul says, "13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another." and yet wasn't that EXACTLY what he did in verse one when he said those that ate vegetables only were weak in faith?
    That’s actually a pretty good comment on the chapter.

    It wasn’t actually eating meat that was the issue it was specifically eating meat that had been sacrificed to Pagan gods which might imply worship of said gods.

    Taking the chapter in context what I get out of it is Paul is saying “Look I know those pagan gods (like the Arab moon god A’lah) no power but if my eating meat from that temple is going to cause a fellow believer to lose faith then I’m not going to do it.”

    A very valid modern comparison would be for you to say “ I know my open carrying a firearm in church really isn’t a threat but if my doing so is going to cause some blue haired old lady to be so distracted that she gets nothing from the sermon then I’m not going to do it.”

    Verse 13 I really can’t explain except to say that there’s a difference between condemning someone and stating a fact as it is
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  8. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Why didn’t you post this in the first place? I always accept a Wikipedia article posted by a Muslim as authoritative commentary on the Bible and the Life of Jesus Christ.

    Guess I might as well throw away my Bible and convert
    Picture of Jesus punching a man in the face while a terrified crowd cowers:

    Picture of Jesus whipping a prostrated man with a belt while the crowd flees:

  9. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    If your church needs armed guards, you're doing something wrong. Maybe protesting soldiers funerals, assaulting non whites and posting racist hate filled videos on you tube?



    I hear the KKK grand wizard has good security too. Does your pastor know him?

    I'm curious here,

    Now clearly the above is acceptable to you so is it OK if I point out that at least my religion wasn't founded by a pedophile?
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Would that be like a guy that comes here to start a thread asking about the proper way to implement an no open carry policy and instead of actual answers gets dog piled by everyone in the thread?
    He got plenty of helpful answers. Just like any forum he read and took what he could used, thanked those that helped, and went about his business. In actuality, the OP really had no issue with anyone, you did.

    Yes he came in here and asked a question, many open carriers were disturbed by it (but that's our problem not his) and yet we open carriers still welcomed him and answered him. We didn't attempt to get him to comply or be banned.

    And this fallacy that we need to make the majority happy even if it upsets the few. I hear this a lot about open carry everywhere, or carry in general. It holds no value. 99% of the people I encounter have no problem with me carrying. Have you ever asked your congregation what they felt about guns? It seems, to appease the few, you will upset the few, and the majority wouldn't care either way.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I'm curious here,

    Now clearly the above is acceptable to you so is it OK if I point out that at least my religion wasn't founded by a pedophile?
    Neither was mine. Nobody knows how old Aisha was. Take into account that in traditional Muslim countries, it is only the year 1434. Calendar years are much much different. So take into account that for every 2.4 years in Gregorian time, the Islamic calendar only progresses one year. 9x2.4=...take a guess....21.6. She was 21 years and 8 months old. And a virgin, which by today's standards is amazing.

    Your religion however, was founded by a man who slept with a prostitute on a regular basis. He even kept her from being stoned. Along with his blaspheming, he was also a regular John (which was by a funny coincidence his father's real name AND the name of the priest who baptised him) and it comes as no surprise that 2013 years ago he was executed. He was judged by a jury of his peers, about a thousand of them actually, convicted, and sentenced to death.
    Last edited by tricolordad; 09-01-2013 at 03:22 PM. Reason: minor math correction

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