What to say to an open carry visitor at church? - Page 22
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Thread: What to say to an open carry visitor at church?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitt County Pride View Post
    The Bible encourages healthy sex between a husband and wife and such activities are probably protected under the Constitution, but does that mean it should be practiced on a pew during the morning worship service? I don't think so...

    OC may be a constitutional right, but churches have property rights too. I was born, raised and have lived in the South my entire life, where guns and church are practically daily rituals for my family, and I wouldn't consider OC at church, knowing the distraction it would cause. Anything that distracts from worship unnecessarily is a bad thing. There is a time and place for all things and CC is definitely the best approach for church. Commom sense tells you that. I'll show my pastor the latest addition to my collection in his study after church and I'll bring it in a box, not in my hand where all will see...

    This pastor is doing it the right way, on a case by case basis, without posting. With something that has only happened once in a decade, it is needless to focus too much attention to it. When you come to church, bring your Bible and conceal your handgun. Hopefully you'll be using your Bible more than your gun. It's not a big issue so don't make it one...
    The distraction aspect that the OP mentioned has not been challenged to any large degree. It's when Cypher came in early in the thread and said that not only is CC just fine, and OC is banned at his church, but if an OC'er came in they would not inform them of their policy, would put at least one armed guard right behind him during the service, and then tell the OC'er after he's sat there perfectly peacefully for the last hour or so that he wouldn't be welcomed back attired like he was that day. He described this process as some form of a "security" measure.

    Cypher also questioned the motivations of anyone who OC's in very personal ways. Treo...damn...I mean Cypher said, among other things:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Cites
    people walk into churches all the time looking to cause a disturbance and I would assume that anyone that just showed up out of the blue open carrying was doing exactly that and I would respond accordingly....

    ...I'd also suggest that if you want advice on how to run your church you ask mature Christians of good reputation that you know instead of throwing it out on a gun forum...

    Because we draw from a large pool of volunteers our security team is probably bigger than some of your congregations. As a result you could probably walk into my church open carrying 100 times and I could put a different plainclothes volunteer right behind your seat every time and youíd never know thatís what I did. Although the reality is that youíd do it once and then after service you would be invited back with a concealed weapon, no weapon or not at all.

    ...Again, no one is asking you to validate our decisions but please donít assume that you are in a position to dictate our security measures to us...
    [My note: "Their security measures" being that CC'ers are welcome, while OC'ers are closely watched like a terrorist threat, and then told to CC, come unarmed, or don't come back at all the next time. He's not making an "it's a distraction" argument, he's claiming this policy is part of their security measures. Somehow, his twisted "logic" and "reasoning" tells him that the one or two guns the security team might see out in the open sans the policy forbidding it are more dangerous (more a threat to their security) than the perhaps hundreds of guns they can't see that the 8,000-strong congregation 3 times a service-day are hiding under their coats.]

    To be perfectly honest after reading this thread I think most of the people responding would be the very ones that I would consider disruptors if they showed up at my church. Nothing that Iíve read in this thread has given me reason to believe any thing other than that you open carry just to stir the pot (and to be clear Iím not talking about open carriers in general Iím talking about the group in this thread specifically) and if you did show up at my church open carrying youíd be doing it just to prove you can.
    [My note again: This highly personalized rant after everybody who commented critically or questioningly on the policy of his church, did so acknowledging at every turn that his church has every right in the world to set their own policies. What was being questioned or challenged or criticized though, was how he could deem it a security measure when anybody is welcome to CC in his church.]
    Instead of being a security measure, it is the pulpit-sanctioned turning away from the Church of law-abiding, peaceful people for no other reason than outright prejudice exactly as-described in that last quote of his above. He has prejudged every poster in this thread who argues that no added security is achieved at all by 1) allowing the OC'er to sit through a service on their first visit with no challenge or disclosure of the "no-OC" policy, or 2) surreptitiously sending armed security personnel to stay in close proximity to them during that first visit, but then treating them the same as everyone else if they come back again CC'ing, and 3) embracing CC for anyone and everyone in the first place. The one gun you can see is more dangerous than the potentially hundreds of guns you can't see, and you call that a "security measure?" It's outright bigotry, and that's all it is. The New Life Church of Colorado Springs has the right to implement any policy they wish, but everyone reading Cypher's descriptions of that policy here at USACarry has the right to evaluate it exactly as he has described it. It adds zero security to the building, the people, the pastor(s) or the security personnel, and it embraces prejudice against people for doing nothing wrong or disruptive or intimidating or anything except seeking knowledge and teachings of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by bing98507 View Post
    I pastor a church in a rural/suburban area of Washington state (OC legal). We have a policy prohibiting OC at our worship service (CC OK). If you were to visit our church for worship, what's the best way for me to inform you of the policy? Here's what is what I plan to say after personally welcoming you and exchanging names (not from the front, but one-to-one):

    "I am glad you have come to worship. We do not allow open carry in this building during worship because we have found that it distracts too many people. You may carry concealed if you have a permit or lock your gun in your car. I hope you will choose one of those options and stay."

    If you can comply, great. If not, I would ask you to leave.

    Thanks for the feedback. If I need to do this in the future, I would like to get it right.

    Rich
    Your Church Rich, your call. I believe your explanation is well thought out and when communicated with love should be effective. Now how it will be received will be based on the heart of the carrier.

  4. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT CCW View Post
    Now how it will be received will be based on the heart of the carrier.
    That is 22 pages of argument summed up in a nut shell
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  5. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing98507 View Post
    I pastor a church in a rural/suburban area of Washington state (OC legal). We have a policy prohibiting OC at our worship service (CC OK). If you were to visit our church for worship, what's the best way for me to inform you of the policy? Here's what is what I plan to say after personally welcoming you and exchanging names (not from the front, but one-to-one):

    "I am glad you have come to worship. We do not allow open carry in this building during worship because we have found that it distracts too many people. You may carry concealed if you have a permit or lock your gun in your car. I hope you will choose one of those options and stay."



    If you can comply, great. If not, I would ask you to leave.

    Thanks for the feedback. If I need to do this in the future, I would like to get it right.

    Rich
    My reply would be, good bye. I will find another church. I will respect your request, and go elsewhere. God may prohibit murder, but does not prohibit self defense.

    2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Alvin C. York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I find the policy hypocritical, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. Out of sight, out of mind mentality will only hurt people. It's only distracting if you get up on the pulpit, and make it an issue. It's almost like saying if you are gay, stay in the closet otherwise it will be distracting. What if I'm gay, and OC? What do I do??

    My gun has come out of the closet, deal with it.

    P.S. That's a lot of posts for such a short time, wow. This question really hit a nerve. It will take me awhile to read all the responses, so I apologize if what I said has already been said. I may be "preaching to the choir".

  6. Wwjd

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Nineby19Phan View Post
    Wwjd
    What Would Jesus do? he would tell if you don't already have one, to go, even if you have to sell something, and buy a weapon. Luke 22:36
    it's hard to conceal carry a sword. so i don't think he would have a problem with it.

  8. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    What Would Jesus do? he would tell if you don't already have one, to go, even if you have to sell something, and buy a weapon. Luke 22:36
    it's hard to conceal carry a sword. so i don't think he would have a problem with it.
    Back in those days they wore garments much like robes that were long,and swords were short. Therefor it would have been very easy to conceal a sword.
    ~ GOD HATES RELIGION ~

  9. #218
    Did "We" digress just a bit from the original?
    "Undocumented Second Amendment Supporter, fighting against suppression of mandatory background checks."

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Back in those days they wore garments much like robes that were long,and swords were short. Therefor it would have been very easy to conceal a sword.
    have you ever done it?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by NotTwoShure View Post
    Did "We" digress just a bit from the original?
    Well, most of the original topic of this thread seems to center around the question of being "considerate" towards the feelings of those "distracted" by the sight of handgun properly holstered and carried on someone's belt. So, in keeping with that topic....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nineby19Phan View Post
    Wwjd
    One must ask, how considerate was Jesus of the "feelings" of the religious people, especially the religious leaders of his day? Did he cater to their itching ears so as not to offend them?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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