You couldn’t make timing like this up, first open carrier in my church last week - Page 2
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Thread: You couldn’t make timing like this up, first open carrier in my church last week

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would be willing to bet that if you asked those same people in church who are "distracted" by open carry that they would be equally "distracted" if they knew how many people were carrying concealed firearms in the same church. To me, what is deceitful is catering to the "distracted" group by merely hiding the gun from them, when in reality, if you actually asked them, I'll bet they would be equally "distracted" by the presence of concealed firearms if they realized they were there.
    Again feel free to open a church that caters specifically to open carriers. Then watch how fast it becomes all about the guns and not about the cross
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would be willing to bet that if you asked those same people in church who are "distracted" by open carry that they would be equally "distracted" if they knew how many people were carrying concealed firearms in the same church. To me, what is deceitful is catering to the "distracted" group by merely hiding the gun from them, when in reality, if you actually asked them, I'll bet they would be equally "distracted" by the presence of concealed firearms if they realized they were there.
    Concealed carry is one of the few instances where "what they don't know won't hurt them" applies.
    Lewis - NRA Life - Oregon Firearms Federation - National Assoc. for Gun Rights

    Gun control is NOT about guns, it's about CONTROL.

  4. #13
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I would be willing to bet that if you asked those same people in church who are "distracted" by open carry that they would be equally "distracted" if they knew how many people were carrying concealed firearms in the same church. To me, what is deceitful is catering to the "distracted" group by merely hiding the gun from them, when in reality, if you actually asked them, I'll bet they would be equally "distracted" by the presence of concealed firearms if they realized they were there.
    Am I deceiving the public when I carry concealed? More to the point, is deception my intent? The answer to both questions is no.

    I don't carry concealed in order to soothe anyone's nerves or to keep them from panicking. I carry concealed because that is the method with which I am most comfortable.

    When I carry at church, I carry concealed for the same reason. I could carry openly, but I don't want to. Yes, where church is concerned, I am aware that there are those who would be concerned if they were to learn that someone was carrying, and I am aware that they would be concerned if they saw someone carrying openly. That's where individuals who carry have the opportunity to choose to limit their liberty to carry. Conversely, as those who carry would be uncomfortable if they were to leave their firearm at home, those who don't have the opportunity to choose to accept their decision to carry concealed.

    That is the ideal.

    Unfortunately, most churches are less than ideal, and it is the people who choose NOT to exercise their liberties that many times run roughshod over those who DO choose to exercise them. That's where teaching comes into play, and having a pastor and other church leaders who carry helps. The church is supposed to be a place where people who disagree can find ways to accommodate each other. I'm not talking about accommodation regarding issues of morality, right/wrong that the Bible addresses explicitly; those issues are non-negotiable. Whether or not you choose to carry a firearm doesn't happen to fall into one of those moral imperative areas - it is an issue of individual liberty (one for which I can make a STRONG Biblical case, BTW). As I have opportunity, I use these conversations to help bring others along. It's taking some doing, but I see successes here and there.

  5. There is a huge difference between a personal decision to carry concealed, and a church policy that requires concealment because open carry will upset the members. Don't try to tell me that the church policy is in effect out of consideration of the feelings of those that are upset by the sight of the gun, because I will bet you a dollar against a doughnut hole that they are not upset at the mere sight of the gun, but they are upset at the presence of the gun near them or in the building. You aren't considering their feelings - you are only hiding what they are upset about from their sight.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    There is a huge difference between a personal decision to carry concealed, and a church policy that requires concealment because open carry will upset the members. Don't try to tell me that the church policy is in effect out of consideration of the feelings of those that are upset by the sight of the gun, because I will bet you a dollar against a doughnut hole that they are not upset at the mere sight of the gun, but they are upset at the presence of the gun near them or in the building. You aren't considering their feelings - you are only hiding what they are upset about from their sight.
    I don’t know if you haven’t figured it out yet or just didn’t read the whole other thread but the church I attend is New Life Church of Colorado. You would have to be brain dead not to know that there are people carrying guns in my church. If you walk into a church like mine and sit down you have by default accepted the fact that there are going to be people around you with guns.

    I look forward to the opening of your open carry friendly church though

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Co...Life_shootings
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  7. the church does have the privilege to kick people out of there church for what ever reason . say wearing a camel hair suit.

    though it is silly to assume that people are bothered by the wearing of a firearm.

    but to let you know that church is not following scripture and will be heading in the wrong direction. so be careful what you chose

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I don’t know if you haven’t figured it out yet or just didn’t read the whole other thread but the church I attend is New Life Church of Colorado. You would have to be brain dead not to know that there are people carrying guns in my church. If you walk into a church like mine and sit down you have by default accepted the fact that there are going to be people around you with guns.

    I look forward to the opening of your open carry friendly church though

    2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    How much more brain dead can someone be than to say, "That gun on your belt that I can see there bothers me - so please cover it up so it won't bother me any more." Psychologists can't agree whether the concept of object permanence is present from birth - or develops in the first two years of childhood. But by two years old a person who is not brain dead is supposed to be able to grasp that just because the object cannot be seen does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yet, for some reason, the concept of object permanence when applied to firearms seems beyond the grasp of those that feel better when they simply can't see the firearms that they know are hidden.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    How much more brain dead can someone be than to say, "That gun on your belt that I can see there bothers me - so please cover it up so it won't bother me any more." Psychologists can't agree whether the concept of object permanence is present from birth - or develops in the first two years of childhood. But by two years old a person who is not brain dead is supposed to be able to grasp that just because the object cannot be seen does not mean that it doesn't exist. Yet, for some reason, the concept of object permanence when applied to firearms seems beyond the grasp of those that feel better when they simply can't see the firearms that they know are hidden.
    Again let me know when you open "Our Lady of the Open Carry" I'll attend your first service in support
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Again let me know when you open "Our Lady of the Open Carry" I'll attend your first service in support
    Not that Navy needs my help, but is that the best you can do? Really?

    Sorry none of my business. Just pretty damn petty. imho
    ~Responsible people who understand that their personal protection is up to them, provide themselves with protection. Those that don't have only themselves to blame.~Proud NRA ~SAF~GoA Member~

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gejoslin View Post
    Not that Navy needs my help, but is that the best you can do? Really?

    Sorry none of my business. Just pretty damn petty. imho
    Not to mention that it's so....oh, what's the word I'm looking for.....familiar.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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