You couldn’t make timing like this up, first open carrier in my church last week
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Thread: You couldn’t make timing like this up, first open carrier in my church last week

  1. #1
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    You couldn’t make timing like this up, first open carrier in my church last week

    First let me say that is a second hand account taken from the security incident report that was turned in by the volunteer involved. I don’t normally attend Wednesdays because it conflicts with my work schedule.

    Male, mid thirties, casual dress, and small revolver (like maybe a snubbie) showed up at the Wednesday night service on the 21st open carrying. Leather holster with retention strap. Didn’t do anything weird, didn’t appear to be showing off the gun, sat in the main sanctuary. Volunteer (retired cop in this case) involved sat right behind him and spoke to him right after service explaining church policy.

    Subject indicated understanding of church policy and voiced intent to comply.

    The guy’s name was unfamiliar to me (not a huge shock), he may or may not have been a new guy. He didn’t jump on the chair and bewail his lost second amendment rights. He apparently apologized and said he’d conceal next time.
    Some one want to look out the window and make sure we still have a republic?
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

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  3. #2
    This is what I find to be hilarious. It would seem as if your church policy is such that the guns that are hidden in your congregation are viewed as posing less danger and threat than the guns that are visible and you can know about and keep sight of. I'm just curious....have you polled the members who are "uncomfortable" at the sight of a holstered handgun to determine if they are comfortable with the presence of the guns so long as they can't see them?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #3
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    I asked that same question...I'm interested in the response.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #4
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    The answer is no. Open carry is a choice I can't speak for my church but I certainly don't see the need to change a policy about something that has only happened once ever that I'm aware of. Especially when the guy in questions said "Ok, I'll cover it up next time."

    If you think open carriers are this huge unreached people group go open a church that specifically reaches out to them.
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    The answer is no. Open carry is a choice I can't speak for my church but I certainly don't see the need to change a policy about something that has only happened once ever that I'm aware of. Especially when the guy in questions said "Ok, I'll cover it up next time."

    If you think open carriers are this huge unreached people group go open a church that specifically reaches out to them.
    So, how do you know your church policy of concealed carry only is satisfactory to those that are disturbed at the sight of the gun? How do you know it is only the guns they can see that they are afraid of, and not also the guns that are hidden? Or do you think "don't ask, don't tell" is good enough to appease their concerns. Isn't that being a bit deceitful?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #6
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    Posted this in the other thread but it applies here as well

    I don’t think every church is meant to be a fit for every believer. I don’t even think that every church is meant to be an exact fit for every believer, if you’re going to attend any church at all (and the Bible makes it quite clear that believers are to be involved in a local body) you are going to have to compromise.

    I don’t agree with my Pastor on every issue. Based on Jude 1:9 he believes that it’s not a believer’s place to rebuke Satan but to ask the Lord to rebuke him for us. Based on Mark 16: 17 I believe it is absolutely a believer’s place to rebuke demons (I doubt very seriously that I even show up on Satan’s radar). As I don’t see this as a major doctrinal point of division I generally note it and remind myself that I disagree every time he says it and I listen to the rest of the message.

    Similarly, I don’t see open carry as some huge doctrinal issue, I might if I was into it but I’m not so I don’t. If I came to a church that I agreed with in most points accept that one and the church felt like a fit and most importantly I believe that this was the church that God wanted me in I’d cover it up or even leave it in the car for that hour and a half. I’ll even go so far as to say that if I was certain that a given church was God’s choice for me and they were posted no weapons period I’d honor it. I’d leave a church over teaching baptism or a doctrine of works as a requirement for salvation before I’d leave one over whether or not I can carry a gun.

    Having said all that I’ll say again that if your relationship with a given church starts with a fundamental disagreement that is that serious to you I’d advise you to find a different church but if I were to start every relationship with any church with that fundamental of a disagreement I’d take a very close look at me.
    If you and I have a problem it’s a you and I problem but if you and I. you and she, you and he and you and them have a problem it’s a you problem
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  8. #7
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    Here we go again....
    "It is not malicious acts that will do us in but the appalling silence and indifference of good people. All that is needed for evil to run rampant is for good women and men to do nothing." -MLK Jr Current Carry: Ruger SR40c

  9. #8
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Here's where you run into the problem in the context of the Church.

    Romans 12:17 teaches, "If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." The Apostle Paul will teach in another passage (Romans 14) that it is sometimes necessary for believers to limit the exercise of their liberties (things to which they are fully entitled) to avoid offending others. Now, I'm not going to get into a drawn out exposition about what it means to "offend" someone in this context, but suffice it to say that it involves more than merely disrespecting someone's sensibilities. Still, the point remains that we sometimes limit our liberties in church; limit, not prohibit.

    Carrying concealed in church where permitted by law (which, in Michigan, means only with the permission of the pastor or the board, as the case may be) is not a matter of being deceitful, it is a matter of recognizing that everybody is not on the same page where this issue is concerned. It recognizes that the person who wants to carry has the intrinsic right to do so, and it gives them a way to do so in a way that will not be a distraction to others. It is really that simple. If the leadership of the church recognize that the Bible clearly teaches that we have both the right AND THE RESPONSIBILITY to provide for our own security (trust me, many do not), then it gives them the opportunity to address it in a public manner. This works REALLY well when it is the pastor who is carrying - there is a growing number who do.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    This works REALLY well when it is the pastor who is carrying - there is a growing number who do.
    Given, the times we live in I'd think a Pastor wouls be a fool not to carry
    The finest Vodka is a razor Matthew, it leaves no ragged edges.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    Carrying concealed in church where permitted by law (which, in Michigan, means only with the permission of the pastor or the board, as the case may be) is not a matter of being deceitful, it is a matter of recognizing that everybody is not on the same page where this issue is concerned. It recognizes that the person who wants to carry has the intrinsic right to do so, and it gives them a way to do so in a way that will not be a distraction to others. It is really that simple.
    I would be willing to bet that if you asked those same people in church who are "distracted" by open carry that they would be equally "distracted" if they knew how many people were carrying concealed firearms in the same church. To me, what is deceitful is catering to the "distracted" group by merely hiding the gun from them, when in reality, if you actually asked them, I'll bet they would be equally "distracted" by the presence of concealed firearms if they realized they were there.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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