What if someone grabs your firearm while you are Open Carrying? - Page 7
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Thread: What if someone grabs your firearm while you are Open Carrying?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Never met a ghetto-rat scumbag that was afraid of a gun. Have seen plenty of them dare an armed person to shoot them. How many have grabbed for the gun of the LEO arresting them? Never say never. Never say can't. Never say won't.
    I haven't said "never" and I haven't said "can't" and I haven't said "won't".

    What I have said is for folks to man up and provide cites and/or links to actual factual researchable incidents where a non LEO open carrier has had their gun grabbed... and to provide those cites and/or links in a number large enough to be noticeable when compared to the decades of open carry in just Arizona. And since there are decades of open carry in just Arizona there should be a multitude of those incidents available.

    Got cites and/or links to gun grabs from everyday folks in a number significant enough to even make for more than just a footnote in History?

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcglone View Post
    In Ohio, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, if someone tries to take your firearm he means to hurt or kill you. Now your life is in danger and you have the right to use deadly force to prevent your firearm form being taken.

    I OC and CC a 1911 using an IWB holster which keeps my firearm tight against my hip. Takes a good pull to remove my firearm. It's all back to knowing your surroundings and awareness.
    My initial point about ensuring your gun remains in your holster (simply using your firing hand to force it down into the holster) is so that you can do whatever is necessary after that to get your strong side away from the attacker, leaving access to your holster available to you and not him. If the gun comes out of the holster while you are both trying to gain possession of the gun, well, I don't go to Vegas for a reason. 50/50 odds on who get's the gun is not something I want to bet my life on. If it stays in the holster until you are ready to draw and defend yourself, you win. If a BG is trying to grab your gun, chances are it is because he doesn't have one of his own.
    Chief

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Got cites and/or links to gun grabs from everyday folks in a number significant enough to even make for more than just a footnote in History?
    No. But a sociopathic career criminal who would rape, murder, sodomize, torture or commit other acts of depraved indifference will certainly not hesitate. That's the same as thinking another gun law stops a criminal. Certain people will only be stopped one way. And while we don't frequent their neighborhood they certainly shop in ours. A lack of abundance of stories is in no way indicative of anything.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Never met a ghetto-rat scumbag that was afraid of a gun. Have seen plenty of them dare an armed person to shoot them. How many have grabbed for the gun of the LEO arresting them? Never say never. Never say can't. Never say won't.
    Historical statistical data indicates that you are mistaken. Statistics indicate that most of the time when a gun is used defensively, no shots are ever fired. Statistics also indicate that the majority of criminals won't burglarize homes that are occupied in the US because the criminals are afraid of getting shot by the homeowners. Occupied home burglaries are much more common in the UK because of their gun control laws.

    You really think you can compare Joe Citizen defending himself with a gun to a LEO arresting a criminal? There are much different motivations for the actions of a criminal being arrested by a LEO than for a criminal committing a crime against Joe Citizen.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Got cites and/or links to gun grabs from everyday folks in a number significant enough to even make for more than just a footnote in History?
    No. But a sociopathic career criminal who would rape, murder, sodomize, torture or commit other acts of depraved indifference will certainly not hesitate. That's the same as thinking another gun law stops a criminal. Certain people will only be stopped one way. And while we don't frequent their neighborhood they certainly shop in ours. A lack of abundance of stories is in no way indicative of anything.
    So by your own admission you have no proof that your fear mongering about gun grabs has any actual basis in fact. (see part of your post I put in bold for emphasis)

    Just because bad people shop in our neighborhoods doesn't mean they grab guns in our neighborhoods so trying to make that implication just doesn't cut it. You have already admitted you have no cites and/or links to actual gun grab incidents from bad guys so it would appear that the neighborhood part of that equation is immaterial.

    And yes, the lack of any evidence to support a claim IS evidence the claim isn't fact because if it were indeed fact..... there would be evidence to support it.

    So you got nothing except an opinion. You most certainly are entitled to your opinion (and I fully support your entitlement to have your opinion) but if you are going to present your opinion as fact then .... support it with cites and/or links to actual factual evidence instead of pushing fear hoping for an emotional response.

    No cites to actual factual incidents of gun grabs from open carriers by anyone, including bad guys, in any significant number that would be more than a fart in a windstorm during the decades of open carry in just Arizona.... means your opinion that open carry will result in gun grabs is nothing more than your opinion with no facts to back it up. Perhaps it would be wise for you to reflect upon your opinion and temper it with real world facts.

  7. #66
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    Bikenut & Navy...
    .
    No. I'm only saying that nothing is absolute. As I found out years ago anything can happen. The thing you least expect... that you never hear about... it can happen to you. As much as I support whatever law is legal (I do support OC) it doesn't mean it's a good idea. My youth taught me much about thug life. I put nothing past these animals. It happens all the time in the inner cities. Thugs routinely kill each other for a gun, drugs, money or cooch. Everyone is armed and everyone knows it. Yet no one is stopped by the knowledge that the other rat is armed. They go right after each other with impunity. There were over 500 gun murders in Chicago last year. Add up all the perp-on-perp murders across America. Does anyone know what each murder was over? No. Do we know it was not over a gun? No. Will they kill each other for a gun? Absolutely. The press rarely tells us much about why minorities kill each other. All these low-life's shop at Walmart too.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #67
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    Best argument against OC as yet. Thanks BC. I'm PRO OC but what you posted makes sense.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Bikenut & Navy...
    .
    No. I'm only saying that nothing is absolute. As I found out years ago anything can happen. The thing you least expect... that you never hear about... it can happen to you. As much as I support whatever law is legal (I do support OC) it doesn't mean it's a good idea. My youth taught me much about thug life. I put nothing past these animals. It happens all the time in the inner cities. Thugs routinely kill each other for a gun, drugs, money or cooch. Everyone is armed and everyone knows it. Yet no one is stopped by the knowledge that the other rat is armed. They go right after each other with impunity. There were over 500 gun murders in Chicago last year. Add up all the perp-on-perp murders across America. Does anyone know what each murder was over? No. Do we know it was not over a gun? No. Will they kill each other for a gun? Absolutely. The press rarely tells us much about why minorities kill each other. All these low-life's shop at Walmart too.
    Simple fact is that a true bad guy who is interacting with a cop:
    a. knows the cop is armed
    b. knows that if he complies he may go to prison
    c. doesn't want that to happen.
    This is different from a random bad guy entering an establishment with ill intent, and a random stranger being in that establishment who happens to be openly carrying. Bad guys aren't necessarily Mensa candidates, but they do have self preservation skills. If they want to rob a place, chances are they will wait for OC guy to leave, or choose another store, rather than trying to take the gun from the guy. Argue that.
    Chief

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Got cites and/or links to gun grabs from everyday folks in a number significant enough to even make for more than just a footnote in History?
    Bikenut & Navy...
    .
    No. I'm only saying that nothing is absolute. As I found out years ago anything can happen. The thing you least expect... that you never hear about... it can happen to you. As much as I support whatever law is legal (I do support OC) it doesn't mean it's a good idea. My youth taught me much about thug life. I put nothing past these animals. It happens all the time in the inner cities. Thugs routinely kill each other for a gun, drugs, money or cooch. Everyone is armed and everyone knows it. Yet no one is stopped by the knowledge that the other rat is armed. They go right after each other with impunity. There were over 500 gun murders in Chicago last year. Add up all the perp-on-perp murders across America. Does anyone know what each murder was over? No. Do we know it was not over a gun? No. Will they kill each other for a gun? Absolutely. The press rarely tells us much about why minorities kill each other. All these low-life's shop at Walmart too.
    And what I am saying is that unless there is factual evidence that the average everyday open carrier is in danger of having their gun grabbed by the thugs you are mentioning ... supported by cites and/or links that you have admitted you do not have...trying to equate the fear of bad ass thugs with the fear of gun grabs by those thugs is nothing more than fear mongering.

    Facts are facts. Fact ... there are bad ass thugs. But the fact that there are bad ass thugs does NOT equate to bad ass thugs grabbing guns from open carriers. For your argument to have any validity cites and/or links to actual incidents where bad ass thugs grabbed guns from open carriers would be needed instead of trying to use the fear of bad ass thugs to equate to the fear of bad ass thugs engaging in gun grabs.

    originally posted by mappow

    Best argument against OC as yet. Thanks BC. I'm PRO OC but what you posted makes sense.
    Did you miss the part where BC admitted he did not have any actual facts to back up his argument?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Never met a ghetto-rat scumbag that was afraid of a gun. Have seen plenty of them dare an armed person to shoot them. How many have grabbed for the gun of the LEO arresting them? Never say never. Never say can't. Never say won't.
    can say never had, or never did

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