What if someone grabs your firearm while you are Open Carrying? - Page 9
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Thread: What if someone grabs your firearm while you are Open Carrying?

  1. Again, I’m not saying don’t open carry. All I’m saying is don’t think for a second that the thugs are going to be as impressed by that fact as you are
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Two sides of the same coin. You're splitting hairs. You're he one not researching fats. I'm not researching anything for you. Tell me you know for a fact that none of the thousands of perp-on-perp gun murders were over a gun. It's a ridiculous position to take. There is no absolute anything in this world. On any given day anything can happen. We're not interested in the past, we're interested in the future. But f you think no one will ever make a play for any OC gun, well... it's your funeral. Carry on. I support the law. I just think it's not always pertinent.
    .
    Regarding the Freud thing? Some gun owners definitely fall into this category. It's not meant as a slur but rather factual based on human behavior according to Freud, Jung, Theodor Rubin and others. You don't have to agree with an opinion. And getting mad about it merely makes it personal... arguing won't change someone's opinion.
    .
    I recently took s post very personal and flew-off at a group of posters. I gave myself a time-out for a few weeks.
    There is a big difference between a "gun grab" and losing a gun during a struggle... and losing a gun during a struggle can happen to a concealed carrier just as easily as an open carrier.

    Sir.. your refusal to research the facts to support your argument shows a lack of integrity on your part. You made the argument... you do the leg work to find the facts to support it.

    And you are not paying attention... I've repeatedly said I think it is possible for an OC'd gun to be grabbed. I've even said I think it is possible for a CC'd gun to be grabbed. It is YOU who refuses to present facts to support your claims... and it is YOU who is getting all perturbed because I am expecting you to substantiate your arguments with facts that you yourself have admitted you don't have.

    Without facts your argument falls into the realm of personal opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.

    Now about that Freudian thing where you tried to bolster your argument with an implication that some folks OC because they are "compensating" for something. If you have to stoop so low as to use one of the favorite anti gunner insults in the hopes of shoring up your argument then not only does your argument fall flat but your credibility falls even flatter.

    So... got any factual cites and/or links to prove that open carriers get their guns grabbed by anyone, including those thugs you are so sure are so bad ass that they wouldn't hesitate to grab a gun, in a number more often than a statistical rarity?

    If you still have no facts, as you have admitted before, then you got................... nothing.

    Edited to add:

    I'm really not interested in a pissing contest with you BC ..or anyone really. What I am interested in is facts. Because this forum is not some "good ole boy" club where we can indulge in pissing on each other just for fun... this forum is open to the public at large and many people read all this stuff and if we don't give them facts then all they have to go on is BS opinions that do not reflect real world actual researchable freaking FACTS! Remember... it is the lack of actual facts that is the stock in trade of the anti gunners argument that hopes to make people too afraid to actually exercise their right to keep and bear arms.

    And spreading fear doesn't do a damn thing to support the right to keep and bear arms... spreading fear actually causes folks to shy away from exercising their right to keep and bear arms because they read some fear mongering opinionated BS crap unsupported by facts and because of that.........

    they are afraid to actually do it.

    And when that happens the anti gunners........................ win. Please let us not help the anti gunners by dealing in unsubstantiated fear but let us defeat their arguments by always using actual researchable FACTS!

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    There is a big difference between a "gun grab" and losing a gun during a struggle... and losing a gun during a struggle can happen to a concealed carrier just as easily as an open carrier.

    Sir.. your refusal to research the facts to support your argument shows a lack of integrity on your part. You made the argument... you do the leg work to find the facts to support it.

    And you are not paying attention... I've repeatedly said I think it is possible for an OC'd gun to be grabbed. I've even said I think it is possible for a CC'd gun to be grabbed. It is YOU who refuses to present facts to support your claims... and it is YOU who is getting all perturbed because I am expecting you to substantiate your arguments with facts that you yourself have admitted you don't have.
    I absolutely agree with your position on gun grabs. Said so in my prior post. Now I may be a lot of things... arrogant, opinionated, pompous and pig-headed to name a few. But lacking integrity? Absolutely not. I pride myself on honesty, integrity, ethics and morals. They're not debatable. Drilled into me by a military upbringing. And if OC is legal and you want to do it I support you. It's just not for me though. I actually prefer pocket carry as I don't like holsters too much. I know that means I carry a little less punch in my pocket but I just hate the feel of the holster.
    .
    Anytime we carry a gun there exists the possibility that the gun will be in play during any altercation. Doesn't even have to be life threatening. As in the OP, once you're rolling around with someone the gun is in play regardless. If it spills onto the floor your adversary may get it. There are so many scenarios as to be an exercise in futility to prove any one of them.
    .
    In searching keywords, Google returns between 18 million and 22 million websites. Sorry, I can't read them all. But you can take-up this issue with a real pro-gun expert on the subject. "Gun Digest’s Open Carry vs. Concealed," by Massad Ayoob, published July 2012, addresses your issue at length. Mas discusses cases whereby a law-abiding OC was attacked for his gun. He does state it is very uncommon. It's a pretty good book and I think you can get a downloadable version for about $2. I trained yeas ago at LFI under Mas and this subject wasn't covered. I find him to among the best sources on these subjects.
    .
    In summary, your argument isn't with me, it's with Mas. I can only parrot what he's written. And we sure can't check all those search results.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. It’s almost like there’s this sense of If you say anything negative about open carry you don’t support firearms rights and you probably kick puppies.
    I choose not to open carry because I am convinced that the risks outweigh the benefits but if you want to open carry that’s your choice, knock yourself out.

    Just please don't be offended if I choose not to hang out with you while you're doing it.
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    Itís almost like thereís this sense of If you say anything negative about open carry you donít support firearms rights and you probably kick puppies.
    Utter nonsense. When OC'ers constantly have to defend against that "Freudian" crap in a discussion that from their perspective is seeking verifiable data to support the claims being made, it has absolutely nothing to do with something "negative" having been said about OC, it has to do with horrible discussion/debate decorum and the willful lack of sourcing the assertions one makes. And even at that, their integrity cannot be questioned. Well, if you can't or won't at least attempt to validate your assertions, then there's no integrity being displayed to rely on. You don't *demand* that your integrity be recognized, you demonstrate that it is present and intact.

    That said, I have no earthly idea beyond simply saying, "I choose to CC rather than OC - it's just a preference" why anyone who ostensibly supports firearms rights would say anything negative about OC. And then, even when one says they have no facts to back up their assertions, and you describe the tenor of opposition to OC as being said in a negative context, you project the negativity on the OC'ers! Avoidance is a wonderful thing if you can get away with it, but there's a ton of smart folks on this site who will recognize and call you on it when you try. Consider yourself called on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    I choose not to open carry because I am convinced that the risks outweigh the benefits but if you want to open carry thatís your choice, knock yourself out.
    But you have exactly zero data to even suggest that those risks really exist, while Bikenut, Firefighterchen and several others on this site have years of first-hand experience to draw from, plus the virtual non-existence of data tending to contradict their own personal experiences.

    And BC, I haven't read Mas' latest book, but if he advises against OC on the basis of the potential for guns being grabbed, how pray tell, does he explain that all uniformed beat-cops carry in the open? Are they so super-human, so well-trained, so zen-focused on weapon retention that nothing could possibly break their concentration to the point of losing their weapon the same way you hypothesize that non-law-enforcement citizens might?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    Just please don't be offended if I choose not to hang out with you while you're doing it.
    This is the statement of someone who supports gun rights? Pfft.

    I'm OC'ing right this minute, so feel free to follow through with that brainless quip, and don't reply as though you have any respect for others' choices. I mean, we do a fair job of "hanging out" together around here even in spite of strong opinions and differences in preferences etc. No one is forcing you to hang with us though.

    Before I sign this post off, I've got one question for you JD. Do you live in Colorado Springs (or the general vicinity) by chance?

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #86
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    Once again Blues... you have saved me the effort by responding to the foolish unsupported anti OC statements in a much more eloquent manner than I could have.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Before I sign this post off, I've got one question for you JD. Do you live in Colorado Springs (or the general vicinity) by chance?

    Blues
    Eakley Oklahoma
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  9. #88
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    Jan 2011
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    Lacey, WA
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    I've OC'ed for about four years now with no issues from anybody.

  10. The biggest thing that I take exception to is people like BC1 who attempt to tell us all what is best for us based on his gang infested inner city experience. The fact of the matter is that where I live and where I spend 99% of my daily life what few criminals there are are simply criminals of opportunity looking for the easiest and quickest wallet or purse they can grab or which car or house is easiest to burglarize. The biggest drug dealers in my area are in the high school. I refuse to make blanket statements as to what is best for everyone in their situation, especially on the internet where they might be posting from the middle of the ocean on a ship right now like I am.

    So, when someone posts that they have dealt with plenty of scumbags in their life, and none of those scumbags had the slightest fear of any firearm - ok, fine. First, that is one person's claim which does not to seem to have much validity to it because what research, history and statistics we have available indicates otherwise. Second, if that is true in Chicago - is it also true in Seattle; or Newcastle, WY where the entire population works in coal mines and on oil rigs? NO. So for someone to tell me how I should carry my gun based on their experience and stating their experience as some universal fact of life, I am going to ask for some evidence to indicate that their experience is the universal fact of life that they are claiming it is.

    And then there are the people who just have an all out prejudice for some reason against a person who open carries. We've heard it all - from "John Wayne", "Wild West", "Wyatt Earp", ***** size, political statement, wanting to look like a bada$$. Oh, but the people saying those things are "pro-gun" and "pro-2A", just ask them... as long as the other person carrying the gun does it to their standards. Let's leave that crap to the anti-gun crowd, we have enough problems with them.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #90
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    And in another thread, I thanked everyone for being so civil and human in their discussion of OC and CC. Alas, the type of thread this one has become is much more common though.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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