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Thread: Open carry arguments.

  1. As a female, I don't want anyone walking up and overpowering me for my gun. The element of surprise is on my side.

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  3. #32
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    In Texas they are considering open carry. I myself, would support it on a ballot. I myself for personal reasons would still carry CC.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker-Dog View Post
    As a female, I don't want anyone walking up and overpowering me for my gun. The element of surprise is on my side.
    As a woman, or a man for that matter, the element of surprise is on the side of the attacker if you let them get close enough to attack whether OC'ing or CC'ing. They will overpower you for your purse, your body or your life if you allow them to get close enough. You can rely on the myth that there's an "element of surprise" after the attack has begun and you have to figure out how to defend against being knocked out or beaten while trying to draw your weapon at the same time, or you can try to think it out logically that if a victimizer sees that a potential target has the means with which to defend themselves, they will likely pick another target rather than trying to overpower you for your weapon.

    Regardless of whether or not you see the logic in that assessment, it doesn't matter how you carry if your situational awareness is such that you even can be overpowered after allowing the victimizer to get close enough to you to do it. In that case, it was you being surprised by them, not the other way around, and your chances of even getting to your weapon in time to save your own life have been reduced exponentially by that oversight.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    As a woman, or a man for that matter, the element of surprise is on the side of the attacker if you let them get close enough to attack whether OC'ing or CC'ing. They will overpower you for your purse, your body or your life if you allow them to get close enough. You can rely on the myth that there's an "element of surprise" after the attack has begun and you have to figure out how to defend against being knocked out or beaten while trying to draw your weapon at the same time, or you can try to think it out logically that if a victimizer sees that a potential target has the means with which to defend themselves, they will likely pick another target rather than trying to overpower you for your weapon.

    Regardless of whether or not you see the logic in that assessment, it doesn't matter how you carry if your situational awareness is such that you even can be overpowered after allowing the victimizer to get close enough to you to do it. In that case, it was you being surprised by them, not the other way around, and your chances of even getting to your weapon in time to save your own life have been reduced exponentially by that oversight.

    Blues
    Question... If CC'ing and you are surprised, what's the chance of getting to your weapon before they realize you have it?

    Ever since I learned about the Tueller Drill and and saw a video demonstrating what can happen if an attacker is too close, I've been realizing a gun is not always going to be enough. I've got good situational awareness, and learned exactly what to look for after a very interesting class with Marc MacYoung. But... that no matter how good I am at staying aware, what if someone does get too close? I know the basics of handgun retention, and if I'm hanging on to the correct end I'm most likely keeping it.

    I also want to start carrying appendix more frequently, even though it's actually more difficult to conceal and not very comfortable, as it seems that would be the easiest way to access it, especially if someone were to grab me from behind. Any ideas on that? And yes, I'm carrying correctly, I'm just bony, with not a lot of space between my ribs and hip bones.

    I've got a place were I could take women's self defense from a jiu jitsu standpoint, which would be cool - the coach and I talk guns a lot (my son takes his classes), and Mr. MacYoung also teaches self defense classes near by. Unfortunately, I don't have the means to take those any time soon, not with a young kid around and nobody to watch him. I can't afford the classes and a babysitter.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    As a woman, or a man for that matter, the element of surprise is on the side of the attacker if you let them get close enough to attack whether OC'ing or CC'ing. They will overpower you for your purse, your body or your life if you allow them to get close enough. You can rely on the myth that there's an "element of surprise" after the attack has begun and you have to figure out how to defend against being knocked out or beaten while trying to draw your weapon at the same time, or you can try to think it out logically that if a victimizer sees that a potential target has the means with which to defend themselves, they will likely pick another target rather than trying to overpower you for your weapon.

    Regardless of whether or not you see the logic in that assessment, it doesn't matter how you carry if your situational awareness is such that you even can be overpowered after allowing the victimizer to get close enough to you to do it. In that case, it was you being surprised by them, not the other way around, and your chances of even getting to your weapon in time to save your own life have been reduced exponentially by that oversight.

    Blues
    Well stated and true. So many people who chose to CC like to use the reason that they want the element of surprise. The fact is if you are CC'ing properly, you look like any other potential victim to someone looking to target you. They are going to be of a mind to get in, do their deed, and get out as quickly as possible. Now this is not to say that those who do chose to CC are totally at a disadvantage. It is to say that since they look like anyone else, they must rely more heavily upon their situational awareness to alert them to something brewing. Even though I OC most of the time, there are times when I do CC because I deem it to be in my better interests for some valid reason I perceive. While I do my best to keep a good SA working all the time, when my gun is hidden I do it even more so.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  7. #36
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    For me, Open Carry or Conceal Carry is merely a choice. Neither of which should have restriction. I carry concealed by choice and choice only. Local law enforcement here "strongly recommends" we do not open carry here even though it is perfectly legal to do so. That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against.


    I used to be a government-educated stooge. By the grace of God, I repent. -Robert Burris

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR40c View Post
    For me, Open Carry or Conceal Carry is merely a choice. Neither of which should have restriction. I carry concealed by choice and choice only. Local law enforcement here "strongly recommends" we do not open carry here even though it is perfectly legal to do so. That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against.
    I'll finish your sentence for you;

    That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against in my state.

    Please keep in mind that perhaps what may be likely to take place in Iowa is going to be far different from what one is probably going to encounter in, say, Arizona or Alaska or my state of Virginia.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR40c View Post
    For me, Open Carry or Conceal Carry is merely a choice. Neither of which should have restriction. I carry concealed by choice and choice only. Local law enforcement here "strongly recommends" we do not open carry here even though it is perfectly legal to do so. That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against.
    First of all I respect your decision as to what method of carry you prefer. I would like to comment on the part about local law enforcement "strongly recommends".......

    As long as local law enforcement can intimidate people into not exercising their rights then their rights are being infringed upon by the local police using their authority to enforce their opinions/agenda. There is a cure for that...

    And that is for folks to start legally open carrying and when harassed or arrested to sue the police depts. for illegal arrest and/or pursue U.S. Code Title 18 (commonly called "color of law") violations against not only the police dept. that has a policy of trying to control how people legally exercise the right to bear arms but also the individual officers who engage in intimidation in an effort to enforce that policy.

    18 USC 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

    18 USC 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law

    Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States,
    -snip-

    Folks can either allow themselves to be intimidated into giving up their rights... or they can stand up and "strongly recommend" their rights be respected.

    Oh yes... remember that the police use dash cams and such to have a recording to prove you did something wrong so it would be wise for anyone who chooses to stand up and open carry to look into the recording laws in your State and, if legal, record the police while they are engaged in that "strongly recommending" intimidation thing so there is a recording to prove they violated that ... color of law... thing.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As long as local law enforcement can intimidate people into not exercising their rights then their rights are being infringed upon by the local police using their authority to enforce their opinions/agenda. There is a cure for that...

    And that is for folks to start legally open carrying and when harassed or arrested to sue the police depts. for illegal arrest and/or pursue U.S. Code Title 18 (commonly called "color of law") violations against not only the police dept. that has a policy of trying to control how people legally exercise the right to bear arms but also the individual officers who engage in intimidation in an effort to enforce that policy.
    Beautifully stated. Lots of props to you and I whole heatedly agree.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'll finish your sentence for you;

    That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against in my state.

    Please keep in mind that perhaps what may be likely to take place in Iowa is going to be far different from what one is probably going to encounter in, say, Arizona or Alaska or my state of Virginia.
    No, your correction is not entirely true. It's not even my state, it's just the county I live in. Pretty sure that the previous sentence in my post was clear on that, but thanks for the assist none the less.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR40c View Post
    For me, Open Carry or Conceal Carry is merely a choice. Neither of which should have restriction. I carry concealed by choice and choice only. Local law enforcement here "strongly recommends" we do not open carry here even though it is perfectly legal to do so. That is what those who would "choose" to open carry would be up against.
    Again, it's all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    First of all I respect your decision as to what method of carry you prefer. I would like to comment on the part about local law enforcement "strongly recommends".......

    As long as local law enforcement can intimidate people into not exercising their rights then their rights are being infringed upon by the local police using their authority to enforce their opinions/agenda. There is a cure for that...


    And that is for folks to start legally open carrying and when harassed or arrested to sue the police depts. for illegal arrest and/or pursue U.S. Code Title 18 (commonly called "color of law") violations against not only the police dept. that has a policy of trying to control how people legally exercise the right to bear arms but also the individual officers who engage in intimidation in an effort to enforce that policy.

    18 USC 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

    18 USC 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law

    Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States,
    -snip-

    Folks can either allow themselves to be intimidated into giving up their rights... or they can stand up and "strongly recommend" their rights be respected.

    Oh yes... remember that the police use dash cams and such to have a recording to prove you did something wrong so it would be wise for anyone who chooses to stand up and open carry to look into the recording laws in your State and, if legal, record the police while they are engaged in that "strongly recommending" intimidation thing so there is a recording to prove they violated that ... color of law... thing.
    For the record, I am not being intimidated. I "CHOOSE" to carry concealed.


    I used to be a government-educated stooge. By the grace of God, I repent. -Robert Burris

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