Open carry arguments. - Page 7
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Thread: Open carry arguments.

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Rocketgeezer View Post
    I no way buy into "the element of suprize" deal
    In reality, the "element of surprise" is nothing more than a wild west gunfighter mentality. The person utilizing the "element of surprise" is betting their life that they can draw their firearm and, at a minimum, be a fraction of a second away from shooting the bad guy before the bad guy realizes what is happening and can take action to stop the counter-attack. Not something that I am willing to bet my life on.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    In reality, the "element of surprise" is nothing more than a wild west gunfighter mentality. The person utilizing the "element of surprise" is betting their life that they can draw their firearm and, at a minimum, be a fraction of a second away from shooting the bad guy before the bad guy realizes what is happening and can take action to stop the counter-attack. Not something that I am willing to bet my life on.
    Absolutely true. BG's want the element of surprise on their side so that they can: A; attack without warning, B; overcome their victim(s) quickly, C; obtain what they want, and D; get the heck out of Dodge. So we have two different sides working for the same goal; element of surprise. The only way the victim is going to have this is if he sees the threat coming AND he has sufficient time and wherewithal to command the element of surprise, i.e., to act decisively. How is this going to work for him? Yes it can but as you say, one is betting their well being on hope. Vigilance and a solid awareness of one's surroundings is your best bet to thwart an attack, but ones that come suddenly out of nowhere.... well, that's another story.

    Let's face it. Most of use who carry are not always 100% on our SA when out and about. It's human nature to slip and we do. The hidden gun, while a comfort and a seriously good tool, lacks the ability in and of itself to turn away a BG bent upon making you a victim. Frankly if it is hidden properly, you look just like other victim to him so it is not until he makes his move that you are going to be able to go for your hidden sidearm. How quick can you get that gun out, on target, and pull the trigger. And even if you do, he could be virtually on top of you when this happens.

    I am not at all denigrating concealed carry as I see it as a viable and effective mode of carry. I conceal my sidearm when I deem it to be in my better interests and a given time or place. And you can bet when it is concealed, I am definitely using my SA in a heightened manner because it is not the normal mode for me to carry but rather the exception. My advise to those who choose to carry concealed is to consider their clothing, their carry tools (holster, location on body, etc,., and keep their eyes open and moving at all times with head up and not fixed to a phone or a book or magazine. Know what is going on around you as much as you're able. Be prepared to take precautionary measures such as crossing a street or walkway in a shopping complex to avoid perceived threats. Know what's coming up behind you as well as in front and to the sides. Look for places to take evasive action such as stores, alleys, or even between parked cars. Do you need to worry about this stuff when open carrying? Of course you do. The advantage to OC'ing is that your visible sidearm speaks quietly and forcefully for you.

    Stay safe.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    In reality, the "element of surprise" is nothing more than a wild west gunfighter mentality. The person utilizing the "element of surprise" is betting their life that they can draw their firearm and, at a minimum, be a fraction of a second away from shooting the bad guy before the bad guy realizes what is happening and can take action to stop the counter-attack. Not something that I am willing to bet my life on.
    Dam this is something to take note of, we agree on something again, LOL, if one wants to conceal carry to keep from drawing attention that fine, I have no problem with that, personaly I could not care less if someone wants to gawk, stare, or snicker at seeing my gun, but to use the excuse that they have the element of suprize, how is that exactly? its a fact it takes longer to draw from concealment than open, so what if a BG has you in his sights and sees you going for a concealed gun, or you may think if your in a crowd and the BG don't see a weapon on you this may give you time to pull it and end his misery? maybe, but another thing I find interesting is the thought that most people would have a cool enough head to all of a sudden be put into a lethal situation, pull there gun, from concealment, or open, and dispatch the SOB before he gets them, not forgetting that he is most likely jacked up on adrenalin at least, I personaly think people just seeing a open carryed weapon keeps you out of more s*** than not,
    Bad Guys of the world beware the next time you think about jumping on a old guy, because its a fair bet he's to old to fight and probably to fat to run, but can put one in your eye at 50ft with his weak hand

  5. Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Plus 1

    I can't ever remember a "It happened to me" story that stated. "the victim (an OC'er) was able to retrieve his weapon and stop the attack."

    But, I've probably read THOUSANDS of stories that stated "The victim who had a conceal carry permit, drew his "concealed" firearm (yada, yada, yada)..."

    An intelligent person doesn't have to do much research at all to discover far, FAR more CC'ers are forced to use their weapon in a SD situation that OC'ers.


    -
    i have found that if most news agencies want to justify the shoot they will try to connected the shooter with a permit. if the person might have been OC. they will say "he had a permit" which most of us OCers do. this is to fit their narrative that no one needs a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by SirTapparuni View Post
    Or what if someone sees you OCing and calls the Police. Can they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace z"

    sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
    [QUOTE=farsidefan1;477281]
    Quote Originally Posted by SirTapparuni View Post
    Or what if someone sees you OCing and calls the Police. Can they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace z"

    sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4[/QU

    NO

    Not unless you are disturbing the peace :) Open carry does not = disturbing the peace.
    this has been decided by the supreme court. having a holstered hand gun does not approach RAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Walker-Dog View Post
    As a female, I don't want anyone walking up and overpowering me for my gun. The element of surprise is on my side.
    i have found that if someone wants an advantage of a surprise , is because they do want to shoot someone. i would rather not have to make that action

    the thing is that you should carry and carry always. do it the way you are comfortable with. if you do decide that you want to CC then figure out why. are you wanting less hassle, know then the more you OC the less hassle you and others will have. do you worry what others will think of you. that's fine, most of us wear pants for that reason. i for one don't care what people think of me. but either way i will not hold your carry against you

  6. #65
    The more post's I read on this thread, I find myself defending open carry, this is not what I really had intention to do, I just meen that's what I want to do, if the next guy wants to carry in a body cavity, he can go for it, I had mostly carried concealed for many years, and in bad weather I still do, mostly not to get the gun wet, what I guess I'm getting at is if its legal in your area, do what your comfortable with, and scr** anyone that don't like it
    Bad Guys of the world beware the next time you think about jumping on a old guy, because its a fair bet he's to old to fight and probably to fat to run, but can put one in your eye at 50ft with his weak hand

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Contrary to what proponents will argue, neither OC nor CC are 100% foolproof, and anyone who is new to carrying needs to realize that beforehand. Each mode of carry has its advantages and disadvantages; it's up to each individual to weigh those advantages and disadvantages and decide which is best for themselves.
    Yes sir, you are most correct.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Contrary to what proponents will argue, neither OC nor CC are 100% foolproof, and anyone who is new to carrying needs to realize that beforehand. Each mode of carry has its advantages and disadvantages; it's up to each individual to weigh those advantages and disadvantages and decide which is best for themselves.
    can you give the disadvantages to OC? i am curious

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    can you give the disadvantages to OC? i am curious
    Advantages and disadvantages are subjective, based solely on the perspective of the person. I won't get drawn into this game of demonizing one or the other mode of carry simply because it's not the one I choose to utilize for myself. So all I'll say is that the person who chooses to CC is probably doing so because he believes it is more advantageous than OC (whether a pro-OC person thinks there is any merit to this person's perceived "disadvantages" of OC is irrelevant as far as the concealed carrier is concerned), and the same goes for the person who chooses to OC.

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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Advantages and disadvantages are subjective, based solely on the perspective of the person. I won't get drawn into this game of demonizing one or the other mode of carry simply because it's not the one I choose to utilize for myself. So all I'll say is that the person who chooses to CC is probably doing so because he believes it is more advantageous than OC (whether a pro-OC person thinks there is any merit to this person's perceived "disadvantages" of OC is irrelevant as far as the concealed carrier is concerned), and the same goes for the person who chooses to OC.

    Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 4
    Quoted for the wisdom contained therein....
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    can you give the disadvantages to OC? i am curious
    It is more difficult to keep your gun dry in winter/rainy weather.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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