Wow do we really look like that from the outside? - Page 4
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Thread: Wow do we really look like that from the outside?

  1. #31
    Agree with Bikernut, but again think it helps a lot to NOT look like a victim, be aware of your surroundings and stay alert.

    Avoiding the situation is better than either carry position, but both are better than no weapon at all.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I think the key term you used is "attacked." Once attacked the CC'er can be behind the reactionary curve. The time needed to get-out the CC weapon is longer than one openly carried for sure. That could result in a bad outcome. While I'm not so sure about the deterrent factor of OC I am sure that the OC'er will get that gat into play quicker. And once attacked that's important.
    As to the bold part, one thing we all can be sure of is that there is no potential for CC to have any deterrent effect, while even the most staunchly committed CC'er could never disprove the potential for OC to have such an effect.

    I rarely even thought about OC as a daily routine until the law that went into effect here in August started looking like it was getting positive reactions from state legislators. As it became apparent that it was going to pass, I started checking out this OC forum to learn what the appeal is. I kind of always thought of OC as a political statement rather than "good tactics" for lack of a better, less military-sounding phrase. While all of the regular OC'ers around here made lots of sense, it was Bikenut who put the deterrent factor into understandable terms, I don't know, maybe three to six months ago, and I remember saying then that I'm all about avoiding trouble, and if the sight of my weapon even has the potential to add to my ability to avoid it, then I'm going to get my head in the right place and take advantage of our recent change in the law that makes it nearly impossible for cops to use OC as the only basis for a stop and/or arrest and/or charge. So I've been OC'ing over the last month and a half or so. Been in and out of Costco and Walmart several times each. Nary a word from anybody. My wife is starting a new job the first of the year where 90% or better will be tele-commuting, so I had to go a few places and round up some used furniture and office equipment, most of which I found on Craig's List, so I was going to people's homes and storage units to pick it up. I really expected to have someone at least say something about the weapon, but no one did. Paid the man, loaded the desk/chair/file cabinet/monitors on the trailer with the help of the people I got them from, and no one said a word about the gun. Oh, and in the last month and a half I haven't been attacked either! LOL Haven't been attacked in the last 35 years of CC either, but I know for sure that that had nothing to do with it being obvious that I have always had the means to defend myself, and now it is obvious, so the potential deterrent will always be there from now on and I hope and pray that it will get me through the next whatever I left of this life (which I know for a fact ain't gonna be another 35 years!) without ever having to use it still.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #33
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
    Agree with Bikernut, but again think it helps a lot to NOT look like a victim, be aware of your surroundings and stay alert.

    Avoiding the situation is better than either carry position, but both are better than no weapon at all.
    And I whole heartedly agree that being aware and staying alert are very good things indeed whether armed openly or concealed or even if unarmed!!! I also think, again just my opinion, a person openly carrying a gun doesn't look as much like a possible victim as opposed to someone who is unarmed, or appears unarmed because they are carrying concealed.. whether they appear alert or not.

    I strongly believe that I, with my openly carried sidearm, look less appealing to a bad guy as I get out of my car after parking in a handicapped spot (legally!!) than the other old fart next to me who isn't wearing a gun in plain sight. I suspect a bad guy faced with a choice of attacking me or the other old fart will pick the other old fart because he isn't wearing a gun.

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And I whole heartedly agree that being aware and staying alert are very good things indeed whether armed openly or concealed or even if unarmed!!! I also think, again just my opinion, a person openly carrying a gun doesn't look as much like a possible victim as opposed to someone who is unarmed, or appears unarmed because they are carrying concealed.. whether they appear alert or not.

    I strongly believe that I, with my openly carried sidearm, look less appealing to a bad guy as I get out of my car after parking in a handicapped spot (legally!!) than the other old fart next to me who isn't wearing a gun in plain sight. I suspect a bad guy faced with a choice of attacking me or the other old fart will pick the other old fart because he isn't wearing a gun.
    I resemble that remark!!!!

    But I do agree.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    While I'm not so sure about the deterrent factor of OC
    And yet a lot (I would say if not most) are relying upon what they believe is the deterrent factor of the "element of surprise". It appears from the posts here that most people who subscribe to the "element of surprise" theory expect that the bad guy will be so overcome with "surprise" at the mere sight of the gun that they will run away and the victim will more than likely not even have to shoot.

    I say if the criminal is going to run at the mere sight of a gun, than why would they pick the one guy out of 1,000 who they can see has a gun to attack? And, if the criminal is the type that is going to pick that one guy with the visible gun out of 1,000, then the person relying upon the "element of surprise" is in for a shock - because that same kind of criminal is not going to run when the victim yells, "surprise!" and reaches for a gun. That type of criminal is only going to increase their attack if they detect the victim is reaching for a gun. At least if a criminal attacks me anyway, if they see my gun first, I know what kind of criminal is attacking me and I am not led down the false hope path that some sort of "surprise" is going to scare them off.

    I think that is the one of the biggest dangers of relying upon the "element of surprise." I wonder how many people are really prepared for when they reach for the gun and yell, "Surprise!" and the criminal punches them in the nose instead of running away.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #36
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    OC AZ all the time no problem, CC Texas because Texas has become a state of winners.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    And yet a lot (I would say if not most) are relying upon what they believe is the deterrent factor of the "element of surprise". It appears from the posts here that most people who subscribe to the "element of surprise" theory expect that the bad guy will be so overcome with "surprise" at the mere sight of the gun that they will run away and the victim will more than likely not even have to shoot.

    I say if the criminal is going to run at the mere sight of a gun, than why would they pick the one guy out of 1,000 who they can see has a gun to attack? And, if the criminal is the type that is going to pick that one guy with the visible gun out of 1,000, then the person relying upon the "element of surprise" is in for a shock - because that same kind of criminal is not going to run when the victim yells, "surprise!" and reaches for a gun. That type of criminal is only going to increase their attack if they detect the victim is reaching for a gun. At least if a criminal attacks me anyway, if they see my gun first, I know what kind of criminal is attacking me and I am not led down the false hope path that some sort of "surprise" is going to scare them off.

    I think that is the one of the biggest dangers of relying upon the "element of surprise." I wonder how many people are really prepared for when they reach for the gun and yell, "Surprise!" and the criminal punches them in the nose instead of running away.
    I think those who rely on the element of surprise have missed the key point of awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation, etc. I believe those practices help keep me out of the fray to begin with. The real issue is when you're attacked. The CC'er will be slower getting it into play and that itself can be problematic. Thus he gets his head cracked open before anyone knows he has a gun. But I have concern for that element in society hat would put the gun to their own head and dare someone to shoot them. Some of these rats are very disturbed people. Fetal alcohol syndrome, poor frontal lobe development (impulse control) and being raised by animals tends to make them very bad. I read a lot of the OC threads and sometimes comment, but I'm starting to see where this is getting more and more support in state laws. And since their isn't any increase in violent crime by making OC legal perhaps I must give it more support.
    .
    OMG! What did I just say! Am I a becoming an OC convert? Next thing I'll be looking to move to another state!
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Next thing I'll be looking to move to another state!
    But then you would have to give up all those freedoms in New York State that you keep telling us that you have!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    Texas has become a state of winners.


    Misspelling whiners like you did...
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #39
    I don't care how you carry your weapon as long as you do not harm our efforts to gain our rights back as per the Constitution of the Republic of the United States.
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I don't know about anyone else who OC's but for me it isn't about ego.... it is about having the guts to stand up and be proud to exercise the natural right to bear arms, the right that many men and women DIED to protect, without allowing the fear of what other people might think to make me hide that right.
    I just literally returned from Walmart a few hours ago and a group of people there felt the need to trash me and call me names because I successfully stood down the police on Monday after being harassed for lawfully openly carrying my rifle and shotgun home after deer hunting. Seems that I've caused a commotion. Had to walk, but then again I am a taxpayer and law abiding citizen and I have a right to be there. I was offered a ride (by a friend) and a "ride" (by the deputy...guess what she meant by that) and refused for the very reason you stated. Funniest thing about it all was that she was so busy pursuing her own personal agenda that she forgot to ask me if I was carrying any other weapons, which I always always always am lol I'm generally an open carry guy too, just more comfortable to me, but there were flurries and I didn't feel like wiping down and oiling 4 guns when I got home. 2 is enough after a walk like that.

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