Wow do we really look like that from the outside? - Page 7
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Thread: Wow do we really look like that from the outside?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
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    3,004
    Surprise means no prior knowledge or warning, if you fail to watch your 6, keep your head on a swivel or go condition yellow, you can be taken by surprise. OC or CC, I open carry in AZ, NM and where allowed and CC in Texas and I try not to be surprised anywhere. Knockout game relies on surprise, note to Knockout guys, SUPRISE.

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  3. #62
    [QUOTE=Rhino;491129] That's why most people here asked for explanation instead of simply assuming the worst and taking offense like you did.

    I guess that fits your comment on education instead of guns etc. Uncalled for,just as the little boy, school ground hyperbull. Your correct about the computer. It's also a place where one can get away with your "normal statement" from behind a monitor. It fits in the sick pup category. But this has taken away from the original thread. Let's hope comments can be better phrased in the future.

  4. #63
    Also my post was, "what the heck is that about?" Nothing more. Someone agreed with me and then YOU took to defensive and offensive comments. Check out the posts. + everyone here that agrees with that lame hyperbull you posted. Like I stated, you could have found a better way to express yourself. Your comfy with it and I guess everyone else here is too.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    3,348
    I wasn't the one who said it. But like you said, we're getting away from the original thread, and I think we've beaten this horse enough.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I wasn't the one who said it. But like you said, we're getting away from the original thread, and I think we've beaten this horse enough.
    Agreed!

  7. Agreed. Open carry of pistols can be argued as being practical. However, open carry of an AK or AR isn't practical except at time of war, rioting or other high-threat situations. Just marching down the street prepared for a long, running gun-fight. Seeing the open carry of battle-rifles makes people wonder if something is going on that they just don't know about. It makes people nervous. Heck, I carry a pistol every single day and I'd wonder what the heck was going on. When I see the open carry of a pistol, I first decide whether the person just likes to carry open because of personal preference or if they are OC because they have a beautiful gun. Usually, it's a chrome 1911 or Colt Python. With those two, of course you'd OC. They're just too pretty to hide.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Without any attempt to be a jerk let me address that oft repeated and so very misunderstood "element of surprise" thing...

    CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

    With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

    With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

    But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

    Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

    Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

    And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

    I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

    Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

    OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. If there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?

    I don't care how folks decide to carry but I do care if there is any validity to the reasons folks use to make their decisions... and I personally am very tired of the oft repeated myth of some magical mystical super duper Ninja stealth "element of surprise" making concealed carry better than open carry. And I wish folks would make their decisions based on facts and not oft repeated myths.

    Sometimes I wonder if folks hide their fear of "offending", or their fear of "looking different", or their fear of actually having to stand up for the right to bear arms by explaining and/or answering questions, behind the "element of surprise" stupid fish (dum bass) myth.

    And yet.... no matter what a person's reasons are for carrying concealed I will fight for your right (not for a "permit" but for the "right"... BIG DIFFERENCE!) to carry concealed.
    Very good points. However, I think some badguys who are determined, regardless of the threat, to do harm to others would just shoot the OC guys first. That way the perceptible threat is gone. After the OCers get shot, the CCers jump into action.

  9. #68
    I tend to agree. We have concealed carry here in SC. and I've had mine since the beginning. Even if we could open carry, I wouldn't. To obvious of a target. Just my opinion.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan
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    3,355
    Quote Originally Posted by gundaddypv View Post
    Very good points. However, I think some badguys who are determined, regardless of the threat, to do harm to others would just shoot the OC guys first. That way the perceptible threat is gone. After the OCers get shot, the CCers jump into action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatherer View Post
    I tend to agree. We have concealed carry here in SC. and I've had mine since the beginning. Even if we could open carry, I wouldn't. To obvious of a target. Just my opinion.
    Ummm.... Did you guys miss this part of my post above?

    Originally posted by Bikenut
    Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

    OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. If there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?
    Again... without trying to be a jerk.... could you guys cite and/or link to incidents where the open carrier was "targeted" or was "shot first"? I mean... if that is actually the case... if bad guys are actually targeting OC'ers and/or shooting them first shouldn't the internet and the media be awash with a plethora of incidents where this has happened?

    The actual truth is quite simple... while it is possible for an OC'er to be targeted or shot first the rarity of these things happening is quite startling and remarkable. But you guys can feel free to search for actual factual incidents to cite and/or link to (the old "I heard from my uncle's cousin who talked to the girlfriend of an ex cop 20 years ago isn't good enough... please provide actual factual incidents) to support your contention that OC'ers are/will be "targeted" and/or "shot first".

    And I'll quote myself yet again:

    Originally posted by Bikenut
    And I wish folks would make their decisions based on facts and not oft repeated myths.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others.

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by gundaddypv View Post
    Very good points. However, I think some badguys who are determined, regardless of the threat, to do harm to others would just shoot the OC guys first. That way the perceptible threat is gone. After the OCers get shot, the CCers jump into action.
    Your argument fails because you mistakenly believe that the bad guy that would shoot an open carrier is somehow unaware of concealed carry- as though it's a concept he never heard of. While CC *might* surprise a bad guy in NYC or Boston, it is most certainly on the mind of a bad guy in most other places.

    A bad guy that would coldly shoot an open carrier would just as easily and just as likely shoot you while you're compliantly reaching for your wallet. Your personal safety plan, as you presented above, is absolutely ridiculous if you really believe it.

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