Wow do we really look like that from the outside?
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Thread: Wow do we really look like that from the outside?

  1. Wow do we really look like that from the outside?

    So, I just saw a thing on facebook about open carry and some of the responses really made me stop and think. I know some of the posters had to be antigun people posing as NRA members and such but the overall tone was extremely negative and it really made me stop and think if we’re back stabbing each other that hard who’s fighting the antis?

    I still don’t see myself open carrying and I still don’t get why you feel the need to walk up and down the street with an AR on your back but yeah we definitely need to present a unified front
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    So, I just saw a thing on facebook about open carry and some of the responses really made me stop and think. I know some of the posters had to be antigun people posing as NRA members and such but the overall tone was extremely negative and it really made me stop and think if we’re back stabbing each other that hard who’s fighting the antis?

    I still don’t see myself open carrying and I still don’t get why you feel the need to walk up and down the street with an AR on your back but yeah we definitely need to present a unified front
    Want to temper the negative responses with first hand real world responses to open carry experiences? Please follow both of the links below:

    Michigan

    And perhaps the most important real world response to open carry... including the somewhat controversial openly carrying a SHOTGUN ON A YOUNG MAN'S BACK INTO A LIBRARY:

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...rt-action.html

    You are correct... we need to present a unified front which means that we need to stand behind any and all legal carry regardless of whether we agree with it or not. In fact... the more we personally disagree with it the more important it is for us to defend it. The old saying "I don't like what you are doing but I'll defend your right to do it" is exactly what is needed. Because it is the defending of the right to bear arms that makes it necessary to bear arms in ways people don't like to see since a right not exercised for fear of offending or for fear of being "different"... is a right soon lost.

  4. #3
    Agreed bike nut. We don't want the antis to see a crack in our solidarity. Personally, I'm a CC guy, but that's just me. I don't want unwarranted attention and I feel there is a tactical advantage to CC, but again, that only my $00.02.

  5. #4
    I prefer CC to OC, just for the peace of mind and the element of surprise if needed. My Wife and I both CC all of the time. The only time my weapon is off my body is to sleep and shower. Otherwise it is securely hidden on my person. OC is fine if that is what You need for your ego, but it does nothing for me. I would much rather have a CC person at my back than several OC around me. Just the way it is in the country!!
    I am old and slow, BUT dead on with my aim!!

  6. #5
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    Without any attempt to be a jerk let me address that oft repeated and so very misunderstood "element of surprise" thing...

    CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

    With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

    With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

    But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

    Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

    Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

    And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

    I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

    Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

    OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. If there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?

    I don't care how folks decide to carry but I do care if there is any validity to the reasons folks use to make their decisions... and I personally am very tired of the oft repeated myth of some magical mystical super duper Ninja stealth "element of surprise" making concealed carry better than open carry. And I wish folks would make their decisions based on facts and not oft repeated myths.

    Sometimes I wonder if folks hide their fear of "offending", or their fear of "looking different", or their fear of actually having to stand up for the right to bear arms by explaining and/or answering questions, behind the "element of surprise" stupid fish (dum bass) myth.

    And yet.... no matter what a person's reasons are for carrying concealed I will fight for your right (not for a "permit" but for the "right"... BIG DIFFERENCE!) to carry concealed.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CarryNM View Post
    I prefer CC to OC, just for the peace of mind and the element of surprise if needed. My Wife and I both CC all of the time. The only time my weapon is off my body is to sleep and shower. Otherwise it is securely hidden on my person. OC is fine if that is what You need for your ego, but it does nothing for me. I would much rather have a CC person at my back than several OC around me. Just the way it is in the country!!
    ^^^^Perfect example of someone who believes their way is the only right way and cannot see past their own opinions and prejudices. You know what CarryNM? The Brady Campaign and anti-gun crowds are saying the exact same things about the way you carry your gun and about anyone who carries a gun that is not from the government. You are acting like their sock puppet, repeating what you hear them say about people whom they disagree with.

    How about if we say that it is the person who carries concealed who has the ego problem just chomping at the bit to use their "element of surprise" in the hopes of being judge, jury and executioner and being the "hero" who rid the world of one more criminal? Would that be acceptable to you?

    I will never be able to prove to you the deterrent value of a visible firearm because I will never be able to say, "X numbers of criminals have come up to me and said, 'Man, I so would have rolled you for your wallet if you weren't packing heat!" And I am perfectly fine with not knowing. All I know is that in real life 99% of the things that concealed carry only snobs claim is true about open carry - isn't - at least not where I live and not true for any other people who open carry that I know or have read their posts.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. Well to me CC or OC is no big deal do one or the other.The anti- guns want you guns they dont care how you carry. But the guy that has no idea about guns and only has his info from the media. Well then he see you with a rifle on your back he goes nuts. The media tells them long guns are really really BAD. So maybe carry the pistol OC or CC but leave the rifle for home or the range.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarryNM View Post
    I prefer CC to OC, just for the peace of mind and the element of surprise if needed. My Wife and I both CC all of the time. The only time my weapon is off my body is to sleep and shower. Otherwise it is securely hidden on my person. OC is fine if that is what You need for your ego, but it does nothing for me. I would much rather have a CC person at my back than several OC around me. Just the way it is in the country!!

    When is LukeM going to install a "dislike" button when people write trash about an entire group of firearms owners? Where in the world do you get the cockamamie idea that people that OC are doing it for some sort of ego trip?

    And this is not "just the way it is in this country". I know many people who OC and I know many that CC. Labeling one or the other without any valid reason is just sheer ignorance on your part.

    I was also going to go off on you about "element of surprise", but Bikenut did a good job of it.

    In this political climate we are in, in which 44% of the judges on the Supreme Court voted against the decision made in the Heller case, and in which many on the left who wish to abolish the 2nd Amendment altogether, we really need to quit this type of finger pointing. All people who keep and bear arms are protected under the 2nd Amendment regardless of your feelings about a certain way of carrying. To ridicule an entire fraction of the firearm community is just sheer lunacy.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. Yes, you really do look like that from the outside. No matter what's said in here, there is a lot of people who are afraid of guns. You'll always look like that to them.

  11. #10
    My opinion is I could care less if you open or conceal, as long as the weapon is there when needed. I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
    I agree, someone has to take out the trash....

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