NRA says Open Carry Texas demonstrations 'downright scary' - Page 2
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Thread: NRA says Open Carry Texas demonstrations 'downright scary'

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by missoak View Post
    "I Effing want to" would not be a wise reason for them to consider
    OC of handguns.
    Well it's good enough for me!


    Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

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  3. #12
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    I include the map link for reference.
    Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
    Consider this: Open carry of handguns is illegal in Texas. Open carry of long guns IS legal. Considering this, and knowing that the goal is to get a law passed to permit open carry of handguns, what have they done wrong? They have not stated their goal as simply as I just have.
    Chief

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by missoak View Post
    I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population.
    We are not a small percentage by any stretch of the imagination. If all you're referring to is OC'ers, I'll cede that point, but you said you're not "anti anything" after Axe (incorrectly I believe) accused you of having an anti-gun bias, so I'm taking this as applying to pro-gunners being a "very small percentage" of the overall population. The research is not on your side on that statement.

    * Several polls show that Americans are very pro-gun. Several scientific polls indicate that the right to keep and bear arms is still revered—and gun control disdained—by a majority of Americans today. To mention just a few recent polls:

    * In 2002, an ABC News poll found that almost three-fourths of the American public believe that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of "individuals" to own guns.(12)

    * Zogby pollsters found that by a more than 3 to 1 margin, Americans support punishing "criminals who use a gun in the commission of a crime" over legislation to "ban handguns."(13)

    * A Research 2000 poll found that 85% of Americans would find it appropriate for a principal or teacher to use "a gun at school to defend the lives of students" to stop a school massacre.(14)

    Now, those numbers represent sentiment among the general population, whether or not the respondents are gun owners themselves.

    Another source shows that 40% - 45% of American households own guns, so while a minority percentage of households own guns, it is hardly a "very small percentage" who would be predisposed to be pro-gun. Combined with the stats from the first source, the smallest percentage can be found in the anti-gun sentiment among Americans.

    * As of 2009, the United States has a population of 307 million people.[5]

    * Based on production data from firearm manufacturers,[6] there are roughly 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States as of 2010. Of these, about 100 million are handguns.[7]

    * Based upon surveys, the following are estimates of private firearm ownership in the U.S. as of 2010:

    Households With a Gun Adults Owning a Gun Adults Owning a Handgun
    Percentage 40-45% 30-34% 17-19%
    Number 47-53 million 70-80 million 40-45 million
    * A 2005 nationwide Gallup poll of 1,012 adults found the following levels of firearm ownership:


    Category
    Percentage Owning
    a Firearm
    Households 42%
    Individuals 30%
    Male 47%
    Female 13%
    White 33%
    Nonwhite 18%
    Republican 41%
    Independent 27%
    Democrat 23%
    [9]


    This is not in response to whatever you want to call it going on between you and Axe, it is only in reply to your statement about the percentage of pro-gun Americans. I have no axe to grind with anyone who prefers CC over OC, I just have a problem when myths and misinformation are used to justify such preferences.

    I understand that "we" as gun owners and/or 2nd Amendment supporters (not necessarily all in the same group) have differences in how best to assert "our" rights while promoting a positive image for "ourselves." The very fact that I acknowledge those differences though, renders moot the notion that there even is a monolithic "we" or "us" or "our" to be discussed. I'm not a "Because I effin want to" kinda guy, but I have very little tolerance for pushy CC-only people telling me how hard I'm making it for the "real" 2nd Amendment supporters who all "know" that OC hurts "our" cause. What hurts "our" cause more than any single thing "we" do is when we fight amongst ourselves over things that amount to nothing more than personal preferences.

    I'm also not a long gun OC guy, but then, my state doesn't force me to choose between OC'ing long guns or not OC'ing at all, so I have refrained from commenting negatively on the TX demonstrators whose state has forced that choice upon them. They can conduct their demonstrations simply because they effin want to do it the way they're doing it, or they can chat it up with all the locals they come into contact with and try to calmly and politely explain why they're doing what they're doing. Either way, it's their demonstrations, not "ours," so I've got nothing to say one way or the other about it.

    And if I do decide to comment on the prudence or imprudence of their demonstrations, I will be very careful not to make statements of fact that I can't back up with both source and statistical data from which to draw my conclusions.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I include the map link for reference.
    Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
    Consider this: Open carry of handguns is illegal in Texas. Open carry of long guns IS legal. Considering this, and knowing that the goal is to get a law passed to permit open carry of handguns, what have they done wrong? They have not stated their goal as simply as I just have.
    Sure they have, it's just that no one wants to go find the truth before they spout off about the "right" way to go about conducting demonstrations concerning OC. So many of "us" separate "ourselves" from those who don't do things *our* way. I am not among "them," and it doesn't sound like you are either, but the fact that so few media outlets are even willing to give voice to the TX OC'ers so they can explain their position(s) is why you perceive that they're not trying. As far as I know, that interview that I linked to is the only media who would touch the subject, and even then, if you listen to Hour 1, you'll likely agree that the host has a pronounced anti-OC bent.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #15
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    Blues,
    Regarding your polls and numbers, the only problem I have with them is that they are a polls, surveys etc. Even looking at gun sales numbers directly from the manufacturers, you cant tell that I own more than several guns (handguns, shotgun, rifles) and in any given poll, people lie.
    Chief

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Blues,
    Regarding your polls and numbers, the only problem I have with them is that they are a polls, surveys etc. Even looking at gun sales numbers directly from the manufacturers, you cant tell that I own more than several guns (handguns, shotgun, rifles) and in any given poll, people lie.
    First, they aren't "my" polls and numbers.

    Second, if you've got something more than a hunch that those statistics are wrong, then present your evidence. At the very least, they serve to suggest that pro-gun sentiment is hardly a "very small percentage" of the population, and that's the only statement I used the links to refute.

    I'm a chronic cynic, but even I wouldn't claim stats that purport to be compiled from several different studies is necessarily the result of respondents being liars. Your "problem" with the polls and numbers is sourced entirely from your imagination. The links both cite sources as several different "studies." I'm goin' with them until I'm presented some valid reason to question them.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. #17
    When I said we were a small percentage, I was referring to Carriers, CC or OC. Not gun OWNERS. Almost eveyone I know OWNS at least one gun.
    Very few of them have carry permits, & NONE OC. But that's just my small circle of friends, family & neighbors. I'm not basing my statement on any poll. Just
    by what I experience.
    Mi. population is around 10M, CPL's around 400k. Is that not a small percentage?
    ΥΣΜΧ SEMPER FIDELIS !!!

    42 AND COUNTING

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by missoak View Post
    When I said we were a small percentage, I was referring to Carriers, CC or OC. Not gun OWNERS. Almost eveyone I know OWNS at least one gun.
    Very few of them have carry permits, & NONE OC. But that's just my small circle of friends, family & neighbors. I'm not basing my statement on any poll. Just
    by what I experience.
    Mi. population is around 10M, CPL's around 400k. Is that not a small percentage?
    Sorry, I only responded to what you said, not what you apparently meant that you didn't say.

    I am not anti anything. But WE are a very small percentage of the total population.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #19
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    If I had to choose a side on the chipotle incident, it will be the gun owners side...not the MDA's side...it's sad to see so many choosing MDA'S side...

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    First, they aren't "my" polls and numbers.

    Second, if you've got something more than a hunch that those statistics are wrong, then present your evidence. At the very least, they serve to suggest that pro-gun sentiment is hardly a "very small percentage" of the population, and that's the only statement I used the links to refute.

    I'm a chronic cynic, but even I wouldn't claim stats that purport to be compiled from several different studies is necessarily the result of respondents being liars. Your "problem" with the polls and numbers is sourced entirely from your imagination. The links both cite sources as several different "studies." I'm goin' with them until I'm presented some valid reason to question them.

    Blues
    Polls, quite simply are mostly bunk. It depends entirely on what is asked and how it is worded.
    -
    Ask 100 people if they would support a law that makes them safer, 90%,or more would say yes. Ask those same people if they would support a law for more gun restrictions and the number changes. Libs would argue that it is the same question, or restrict their polling to areas where they can predict the results, all to try and change the mind of people on the fence.
    Chief

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