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Thread: California Open Carry

  1. California Open Carry

    Why in the blue Susie would anyone in their right mind carry an unloaded weapon in a holster in plain view? He might as well wear one of those sandwich signs stating, "Hey, gangbangers! Free gun here, just take it." On the other hand, if I read the stated law correctly, I can buy an SKS rifle and walk down the street in LA with it on my hip and if confronted by a cop, I could tell him, " it's okay, it's unloaded."who would be dumb enough to confront a person carrying what looks like an AK-47? ROFL Thank you, but I will just avoid Caliphony.
    A man without a gun is a subject; a man with a gun is a citizen.
    I'll keep my freedom, my guns and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
    An armed society is a polite society.

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  3. #12
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    Citation please?
    I don't have one but it was mentioned by 2 different instructors who were both retired LAPD Police Officers. Could they be wrong? Of course but if two who are instructors (for Security Guard cards and CCW and Utah Carry Permits) have the wrong information, so will a lot of other even less informed active Police Officers.

    Now there was a suggestion of Open Carry in a vehicle. I'm pretty sure that will get you arrested and hauled in (possibly not convicted but it still gives you a record and costs you a bundle).

    According to the Summary of California Gun Laws & Basic Safety Rules from the CRPA:

    "With certain exceptions, a concealed handgun can legally be transported within a motor vehicle without a permit only by carrying it: 1) unloaded: and 2) locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a separate locked container other than the utility or glove compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be carried in a locked container separate from the utility or glove compartment. Ammunition cannot be attached to the handgun in any manner..."

    "The legal authorization to transport a concealed handgun without a permit unloaded and in a motor vehicle's trunk or a separate locked container in Penal Code Section 12026.1 applies only while going to or from the specific places, and for the specific purposes, identified in Penal Code Section 12062.2 (going hunting, to or from a range, etc.)...

    Technically, as long as the handgun is not loaded and is not even partially concealed from view in any way (such as half way under the seat or being concealed inside a holster or a non-locking gun case) the answer is yes. But this manner of transporting a handgun may result in unnecessary problems and legal expenses...."

    That's not a battle I am presently interested in fighting (I presently have a carry permit).

    As for UOC (unloaded open carry) not being for everyone at this time in CA, I agree. But for those willing to stack the deck in their favor (recording device, friendly witnesses, OC brochures, knowing the law and knowing they are not in a prohibited zone etc...) there is the possibility for ground to be taken on the RKBA's front in CA. LEOs are being educated about the law and for those who fail to take notice there is civil court action to get their attention.
    Personally I'd like to see it fought as unconstitutional to declare that the gun carried in open carry for sure and probably concealed, to be illegal. I have too little money and too little time to pursue that avenue on my own however.

    The Calguns Foundation and it's Calguns.net members have been active in supporting it's members who have decided to reclaim their rights under the law.

    I guess we have to start somewhere. However I'm not a fan of open carry and really see no purpose in open carry of an unloaded gun.
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member CRPA
    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by maybejim View Post

    That's not a battle I am presently interested in fighting (I presently have a carry permit).

    Personally I'd like to see it fought as unconstitutional to declare that the gun carried in open carry for sure and probably concealed, to be illegal. I have too little money and too little time to pursue that avenue on my own however.

    I guess we have to start somewhere. However I'm not a fan of open carry and really see no purpose in open carry of an unloaded gun.
    I'll start with being happy with just your moral support and knowing that you're now a little more familiar with CA's often confusing gun laws.. Do however stop by calguns.net and see what an "Army of Davids" has accomplished against Goliath (CA DOJ and misinformed LEOs and DAs) in regards to Open Carry, (OLLs) Off List Lower rifles - AR-15, AKs, etc... and soon we will be taking on the State's bogus "safe" handgun roster!!!

    We also raised about $80,000 for the fight in the last 6 mo of 2008!
    Last edited by Liberty1; 01-20-2009 at 07:58 PM.

  5. #14
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    That's good! I have gone to calguns and will be back.
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member CRPA
    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  6. #15

    Can CA LEO's Carry Off Duty??

    Fortunately, I'm happily ignorant of the California gun laws, and trust I won't ever have to know them.

    But, as a former LEO (MI) myself I have to wonder, can't a credential-carrying off-duty LEO carry while off-duty in CA??
    "There is no consitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen." (7th Cir. 1982, Bowers v. DeVito)Stay safe, and stay trained.www.sazsatt.com

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZSATT View Post
    Fortunately, I'm happily ignorant of the California gun laws, and trust I won't ever have to know them.

    But, as a former LEO (MI) myself I have to wonder, can't a credential-carrying off-duty LEO carry while off-duty in CA??
    Yes they can carry, they are a special government agent and not subject to many of the Kalifornia laws that apply to the peon civilians.
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member CRPA
    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSATT View Post
    Fortunately, I'm happily ignorant of the California gun laws, and trust I won't ever have to know them.

    But, as a former LEO (MI) myself I have to wonder, can't a credential-carrying off-duty LEO carry while off-duty in CA??
    Yes, full time peace officers, under state law can carry even if they are not allowed to carry on duty such as in the case of some state prison guards.

    Orange County Employees Association vs Orange County is an CA Appellate Court case where it was determined that state peace officer's status (which is held by municiple and county peace officers) conveyed by the legislature (with includes some off duty responsibilities such as enforcing ABC code and accepting a private persons arrest) superseded an employers interest in regulating off duty firearm carry.

    And there are not a few AG opinions along the same thought process which were cited by the court.
    Last edited by Liberty1; 01-20-2009 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #18
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    Why Open Carry in California?

    Hello fellow gun rights advocates.

    For my first post on USA Carry, it seems that I must explain my activism and advocacy of open carry in California.

    In my search for freedom and knowledge, I asked around to those people who I thought would know about whether exposed carry was legal in California. Many, including law enforcement and "CCW" instructors, said it was illegal, yet could not cite a specific prohibition. There isnt one. There is however, a labyrinth of restrictions and exemptions which when navigated, allow a person to exercise the most basic human right- that of armed self-defense.

    Having carried concealed under the privledge of a license since the mid 1990's, I was no newcomer to being armed. The appeal of being able to exercise the right, unadulterated by the permission of a public servant, has and continues to be a very satisfying pursuit. It was in 2006, after consulting with a local attorney, that I began carrying a firearm exposed in a belt holster. In retrospect this attorney's understanding of the issue was about an inch deep, but they did confirm my understanding of the penal code. An exposed firearm carried in a belt holster is not concealed and not a violation of the law. A firearm without ammunition in a position to fire, is not in most instances a "loaded weapon" and therefore not a violation of the law.

    I carrried at regular intervals for about a year before I had any police interaction. I was detained for about ten minutes by city police officers who confirmed that the method I was carrying my firearm was indeed legal, albeit uncommon. This anecdote seemed to reassure others in the burgeoning open carry community and others imitated this method of carry with varying results. So far, I am aware of about 10 similar police interactions with open carry advocates in California, none of which has resulted in a conviction of any crime. As a result of this form of activism there have been no fewer than seven memos both from departmental and organizational sources detailing for law enforcement the lawfulness of exposed carry.

    The movement continues to advance and the likelhood that open carry will be used a powerful tool to push authorities for shall issue LTC is growing. Given that Californians are on the cusp of securing the 2nd as a right, we will require some means to exercise it- Since "CCW"/LTC is a revocable privledge, then open carry must be the unrestrained right.

    Why would anyone carry an unloaded weapon?

    To comply with the law. Given the choice, I would prefer a loaded weapon- but better to have an unloaded weapon with magazines or speed loaders at hand than to be completely defenseless. I have practiced my presentation and loading- In about 4-5 seconds I am ready for bear.

    To be the deterent. Even with an unloaded weapon, there is an effect on human behavior that cannot be obtained by carrying concealed. By carrying a semi-auto with an empty magazine in the well, the illusion is sufficient that any self-doubting criminal would rather run away that confront someone who by all appearances posesses lethal force.

    To voice my dissent. There are no good gun prohibitions and by carrying my weapon I am protesting the laws that abridge my right to armed self-defense and legislators who would have me dependent upon police who have no obligation to protect me.

    To be an ambassador for gun owners. By being a visiable gun owner, I dispel the myth that only police and criminals carry guns for protection. Average people own and carry guns- they go shopping for groceries, eat at restaurants, go to the movies, read books in the park, or shop for shoes in the mall. Their firearm is a tool, an accessory for their safety and the safety of their family, nothing more.

    To advance the second amendment. By putting feet to my beliefs, others will follow to restore the rights we have allowed to be eroded by tyrants and traitors.
    Last edited by CitaDeL; 01-24-2009 at 01:41 AM.

  10. #19
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    Thumbs up Lead on, CitaDel!

    Next time I am in Kalifornia, I shall endeavor to follow your lead. I trust you can refer a decent 2A lawyer?

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    Next time I am in Kalifornia, I shall endeavor to follow your lead. I trust you can refer a decent 2A lawyer?

    They are few and far between (and very very busy preparing for post Nordyke suits).

    While I won't ask that you not do something clearly legal and I would never discourage one from lawfully carrying for self defense, as an out of stater, I would encourage you to be aware of the difficulty of a non-resident successfully resisting a false arrest and getting your property back without huge expense.

    After a full read of californiaopencarry.org and ALL the links and a study of our penal code, I'd feel more comfortable with what ever fully informed decision you make.

    Carry On!
    Last edited by Liberty1; 01-24-2009 at 04:49 PM.

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