The Open Carry Argument - Page 12
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. "I don't like it, but that is the way it seems to be around my neck of the woods."

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

    Then you need to make a call on the Mayor in "your neck of the woods", and inform him that if he doesn't start doing a better job of instructing the Keystone Cops he has on beat, about the law, he will be the recipient of a visit from the State Law Enforcement Division on what other laws he is breaking in his "neck of the woods".

    If you aren't going to stand up for liberties that those before us have fought so dearly, you don't deserve to be carrying a gun anyway.

  2.   
  3. #112
    handgonnetoter Guest
    GOV5. The Mayor in my city I did not vote for. He is on Bloomberg's Mayors against guns club, or was at one time. He seems more worried about getting gambling casinos in this town than anything else - needless to say I don't like the guy at all. You say that if I don't carry on the outside then I really don't deserve the right to carry at all - cheap shot. I spent four years in the Marines carrying more than just a handgun on the outside, I think I deserve the right. Lets just say our levels of resistance to oppression take paths of their own. Some guys feel that if there are no laws saying they cannot carry open, then that is what they do. I spent the time and money to get a CCW because that is what I choose to do, nothing more than that. I fully understand your points, and will do what I can to defend your right to have those choices. In the end it is not just about the gun issue, it is all about the Constitution issue. Thanks for your views though, I am finding out that at least there are still some people in our society that still have their brains in gear. Take care.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    GOV5. The Mayor in my city I did not vote for. He is on Bloomberg's Mayors against guns club, or was at one time. He seems more worried about getting gambling casinos in this town than anything else - needless to say I don't like the guy at all. You say that if I don't carry on the outside then I really don't deserve the right to carry at all - cheap shot. I spent four years in the Marines carrying more than just a handgun on the outside, I think I deserve the right. Lets just say our levels of resistance to oppression take paths of their own. Some guys feel that if there are no laws saying they cannot carry open, then that is what they do. I spent the time and money to get a CCW because that is what I choose to do, nothing more than that. I fully understand your points, and will do what I can to defend your right to have those choices. In the end it is not just about the gun issue, it is all about the Constitution issue. Thanks for your views though, I am finding out that at least there are still some people in our society that still have their brains in gear. Take care.
    Well, I feel like an idiot now. And I deserve a butt kickin'. I have made a wise a$$ comment to a United States Marine. That in itself can bring you bodily harm. LOL!!

    Please accept my apology for my tone. It does surprise me that, however, that a Marine that defended this Nation would allow some wimp-a$$ mayor to use his cops for shaking down legal gun owners and carriers. I thought that would aggravate you beyond belief. I am in awe of your self-control. I don't think I could do it.

  5. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,558
    Well written and very well thought out. Without a doubt the best argument and maybe the only argument for open carry is deterrence as you have pointed out.
    That goes well with your goal of not being a victim and more so of not being put in the position of having to shoot anyone.
    Ayoob is right when he mentions throwing the BG a few bucks. His whole point is that it just might avoid having to answer stupid questions like why you shot someone 6 times. This is just another tool in avoidance or not becoming a further victim, like crossing to the other side of the street. That would be the whole point.
    Just some personal stories... I was taking a friend to the range to go shooting. I was driving. Another driver made a very rude move and cut me off as he was coming out of a side street. My friend actually got annoyed and honked my horn! I stopped him and then said that I was carrying. I told him that if I was not carrying I might have honked my horn and even "saluted" the rude driver. Since I was carrying I told him I was very much more tolerant and usually just laughed to myself when others act like jerks. My point was that I was in no way going to do anything that might elevate a silly situation into something serious. Not while I am carrying! Just brought this up to enforce the idea that most of us here are responsible and would not jeopardize our rights, our lives of the lives of others.
    Where I live open carry is legal. No need for a permit or anything. Just wondering if the bad guys OC'd how would we know the difference until it was too late.
    I think that is a funny thought.
    I have seen open carry and get a kick out of it. I am a bit private and prefer to carry concealed. You know..don't ask, don't tell sort of thing. No extra attention.
    I recently was in a Turkey Hill (like 7-11) and a guy came in with a 1911 on his hip.
    He squatted down to pick out a newspaper. The holster and butt of his gun sort of jutted away a bit from his hip. Not crazy or want to try this but my thought was that I bet I could get that gun from him quickly, maybe before he realized what was happening. Just wonder if there are others out there with bad intentions that would act on something like that. The point about criminals is that as stated they are already on the path of bad decisions. We think rationally, they do not. They get away with a lot simply because they do things in situations that none of us would without much more planning. Many times they act on impulse. We'd plan and re-plan a robbery, the average street urchin would just do it without so much planning.
    Anyway it was a great essay and made very cogent points.
    Great site here. Always a chance to learn more.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    GOV5, all I'm saying is that, unfortunately, we don't live in the old west anymore. I agree that CCW is a pain in the butt, but I think the police giving you a hard time because they don't like your gun out in the open is a bigger pain in the butt. I also agree that if open carry were perfectly fine then the police should not have any reason to mess with you, but I'm also smart enough to know that around here you will be approached and asked what is up even if the butt of your gun is printing a little through your oversized shirt. I know, its happened to me twice. Some of the police seem not to get too shook up over it, but there seem to be more that do. I don't like it, but that is the way it seems to be around my neck of the woods.
    WOW! So do the police get all shook up around Blacks, Hispanics, Gays, or any other minorities around your neck of the woods? Seems to me, the police in your neck of the woods need a good old fashioned arse whoopin' in court to help educate them. Once you garnishing their wages, that's when they'll realize the really DO work for you.

  7. #116
    I first must say that I openly apologize for not reading this thread, but the title intrigued me. I remember watching on TV (I'm from MA) some sort of public gathering being televised on TV in NH and seeing a gentleman there with a sidearm on his person, outside his coat, in plain view of everyone.

    My IMMEDIATE reaction was that it made me feel SAFE imagining that's how I would feel with this man near me if I were at the event. He was an older, conservative looking gentleman and that might have had something to do with my level of feelings of safety, I can not be sure, but I am sure that I felt SAFE and PROTECTED by seeing a citizen carrying a firearm at a public gathering.

    It's not exactly the place one would choose to say, kidnap a child and run if u were in this mans sights, would it be? Not exactly the place to grab an old woman's purse, knock her to the ground, and run.....

    His mere presence made me feel safer and I wasn't even there, I was a couple hundred miles away... and I'm not a small person at 6'2" and 240lbs while attending the gym on a regular basis.. .because after all... a muscle can not stop a bullet.

  8. Yeah! "laws restrict freedom" gets it!

  9. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by CapGun View Post
    Well written and very well thought out. Without a doubt the best argument and maybe the only argument for open carry is deterrence as you have pointed out.
    That goes well with your goal of not being a victim and more so of not being put in the position of having to shoot anyone.
    Ayoob is right when he mentions throwing the BG a few bucks. His whole point is that it just might avoid having to answer stupid questions like why you shot someone 6 times. This is just another tool in avoidance or not becoming a further victim, like crossing to the other side of the street. That would be the whole point.
    Just some personal stories... I was taking a friend to the range to go shooting. I was driving. Another driver made a very rude move and cut me off as he was coming out of a side street. My friend actually got annoyed and honked my horn! I stopped him and then said that I was carrying. I told him that if I was not carrying I might have honked my horn and even "saluted" the rude driver. Since I was carrying I told him I was very much more tolerant and usually just laughed to myself when others act like jerks. My point was that I was in no way going to do anything that might elevate a silly situation into something serious. Not while I am carrying! Just brought this up to enforce the idea that most of us here are responsible and would not jeopardize our rights, our lives of the lives of others.
    Where I live open carry is legal. No need for a permit or anything. Just wondering if the bad guys OC'd how would we know the difference until it was too late.
    I think that is a funny thought.
    I have seen open carry and get a kick out of it. I am a bit private and prefer to carry concealed. You know..don't ask, don't tell sort of thing. No extra attention.
    I recently was in a Turkey Hill (like 7-11) and a guy came in with a 1911 on his hip.
    He squatted down to pick out a newspaper. The holster and butt of his gun sort of jutted away a bit from his hip. Not crazy or want to try this but my thought was that I bet I could get that gun from him quickly, maybe before he realized what was happening. Just wonder if there are others out there with bad intentions that would act on something like that. The point about criminals is that as stated they are already on the path of bad decisions. We think rationally, they do not. They get away with a lot simply because they do things in situations that none of us would without much more planning. Many times they act on impulse. We'd plan and re-plan a robbery, the average street urchin would just do it without so much planning.
    Anyway it was a great essay and made very cogent points.
    Great site here. Always a chance to learn more.
    Very good points on not escalating a situation, many SD laws are written in such a way that your defense against criminal and civil prosecution is removed if you are the aggressor. An interesting distinction is made here in Kentucky though. I can choose to get into a physical fight with someone, even starting it. But, if the other person takes it to a lethal level, I can still employ lethal force in return and retain my legal defense.

    The thing about the gun poking out thing is, an OCer by necessity has to be more aware of their surroundings. If they are not, they shouldn't be OCing. There's a good chance he knew exactly where you were at and what you were doing. I'm a firm believer in a retention style holster for just that reason. If someone is lucky enough to get close enough to make a grab, all they will get is an elbow to the bridge of their nose and they'll get to look down the barrel of my gun once they clear the water from their eyes, while they wait for the police to arrive.

  10. #119
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    ARIZONA-a short distance from the sun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    I'm a firm believer in a retention style holster for just that reason. If someone is lucky enough to get close enough to make a grab, all they will get is an elbow to the bridge of their nose and they'll get to look down the barrel of my gun once they clear the water from their eyes, while they wait for the police to arrive.
    You got that right.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to HELL"

  11. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    An interesting distinction is made here in Kentucky though. I can choose to get into a physical fight with someone, even starting it. But, if the other person takes it to a lethal level, I can still employ lethal force in return and retain my legal defense.
    Really? Can you cite a specific provision as well as case history of how it has been applied? I submit to you that if you come up to me from behind and tackle me to the ground for seemingly no reason, and I defend my self with a firearm, you would not then be justified in shooting me.
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

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