The Open Carry Argument - Page 14
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. Quote Originally Posted by hopnpop View Post
    I still have a LOT of reading to do to catch up on this thread but I had to stop and commend you on your open vs. concealed take. I wish many others would see it the same way you do. But no, those who don't agree with open carry tend to speak against it...LOUDLY. Thanks for seeing it for what it is - a personal choice. Both methods of carry have pros and cons but in the end, I'm just glad that something is carried - period. With me, my decision to carry open or concealed is largely based on the weather. Go figure. lol
    I like your attitude about open vs. concealed. Frankly, I'd like to be able to carry open. S.C. doesn't allow that option as yet. But even if they did, I'd carry open "lightly" concealed. LOL! I mean I'd try to use some kind of cover, but not be aggressive about it. I would try to wear an untucked open shirt, not buttoned, for example.

    In the fall and winter, it isn't a problem at all. I think the open carry problem with the public is mainly Spring and Summer carry, where you aren't wearing a lot of clothing that could be used for cover. I wouldn't go to extremes to worry about someone seeing a gun, but I would make an effort...one that didn't get in my way of getting to that gun quickly, if I needed to. I wouldn't be concerned about someone noticing it by a wind that blew away the cover momentarily.

    Frankly, to me, concealed carry is better than no carry, but it is a real pain...literally. I would love to have the Open Carry option.

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  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    I like your attitude about open vs. concealed. Frankly, I'd like to be able to carry open. S.C. doesn't allow that option as yet. But even if they did, I'd carry open "lightly" concealed. LOL! I mean I'd try to use some kind of cover, but not be aggressive about it. I would try to wear an untucked open shirt, not buttoned, for example.

    In the fall and winter, it isn't a problem at all. I think the open carry problem with the public is mainly Spring and Summer carry, where you aren't wearing a lot of clothing that could be used for cover. I wouldn't go to extremes to worry about someone seeing a gun, but I would make an effort...one that didn't get in my way of getting to that gun quickly, if I needed to. I wouldn't be concerned about someone noticing it by a wind that blew away the cover momentarily.

    Frankly, to me, concealed carry is better than no carry, but it is a real pain...literally. I would love to have the Open Carry option.
    Well, then, I send my condolences out to you for not having the OC option. Hopefully S.C. will come around. Like you'd mentioned, seasonal conditions having bearing on how you carry. I get Michigan winters and I'm near Lk. Michigan so we get lake-effect conditions here. Concealing is easy under a winter coat. But as for warmer seasons, I agree that concealing is a pain. I tend to sweat a lot and I hate sweating directly on my gun, so to conceal I'd put on a "wife beater" (forgive the terminology) tucked in, under an untucked t-shirt, and carry my gun between the two. But who wants an extra layer of shirt when it's hot out? Not me. Going open is much more comfortable.
    Don't do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics...

  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    Actually I would. You fight physical force with physical force and deadly force with deadly force here. Your expected to be a man, no hiding behind your gun.

    Here ya go;

    503.060 Improper use of physical force in self-protection.
    Notwithstanding the provisions of KRS 503.050, the use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is not justifiable when:

    (1) The defendant is resisting an arrest by a peace officer, recognized to be acting under color of official authority and using no more force than reasonably necessary to effect the arrest, although the arrest is unlawful; or
    (2) The defendant, with the intention of causing death or serious physical injury to the other person, provokes the use of physical force by such other person; or
    (3) The defendant was the initial aggressor, except that his use of physical force upon the other person under this circumstance is justifiable when:
    (a) His initial physical force was nondeadly and the force returned by the other is such that he believes himself to be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury; or
    (b) He withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and the latter nevertheless continues or threatens the use of unlawful physical force.
    Effective: January 1, 1975
    History: Created 1974 Ky. Acts ch. 406, sec. 31, effective January 1, 1975.

    Translation: I come up to you to fist fight and you pull your gun, I can defend myself with equal force and still enjoy immunity from criminal or civil prosecution.
    Great legwork!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    ...snip...
    That seems to me to leave all kinds of room for interpretation. Who defines "non-deadly" force? Suppose, in your example of a fist fight, that you give me a good whoopin' and I drop to the ground and you continue to pummel me. There would come a point where your supposed "non-deadly" force becomes deadly. Unfortunately, at that point it would be too late for me to defend myself, 'cause I'm dead. At what point may I end that assault?
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #135
    I have to say I would like to see more open carry every where, but the hassel from Law enforcement and the gun afraid just doesn't seem worth it. As for CC as a deterent if you are carring you are also some one who is situationally awear and not afraid. This makes you less likely to become a target. Criminals are lazy and mostly cowards if you are standing tall and look like you are going to be work for them they will pass you up for some one easier.

  7. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Parker View Post
    I have to say I would like to see more open carry every where, but the hassel from Law enforcement and the gun afraid just doesn't seem worth it. As for CC as a deterent if you are carring you are also some one who is situationally awear and not afraid. This makes you less likely to become a target. Criminals are lazy and mostly cowards if you are standing tall and look like you are going to be work for them they will pass you up for some one easier.
    This is true even if you are NOT armed. (Criminals definitely want a easy mark!)

  8. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    That seems to me to leave all kinds of room for interpretation. Who defines "non-deadly" force? Suppose, in your example of a fist fight, that you give me a good whoopin' and I drop to the ground and you continue to pummel me. There would come a point where your supposed "non-deadly" force becomes deadly. Unfortunately, at that point it would be too late for me to defend myself, 'cause I'm dead. At what point may I end that assault?
    my thoughts exactly.

    if you dont think so then just ask the poor girl that recently had her head bashed in with those steel toe boots. it put her in a coma for several weeks. i think that situation would fall into the category of deadly force. especially if the aggressor persists.

    and face it. most fist fights now days aint fist fights. they start that way, but quickly turn very violent. read the paper and watch the news if you dont think so. kids and most criminals use weapons now days cuz thats the cowards way out. and if i can prevent a hospital stay by pulling my gun then so be it. nobody said i have to squeeze the trigger. thats only if the moron insists on continuing.
    "You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore."

  9. It must be REALLY different in Kentucky. I can't speak for "most" states, but in my state,S.C., if you use force against a person, like a fist fight, as you say, I can claim threat of bodily harm. Therefore I am in imminent danger, and I have the right to use deadly force. When you start a fist fight, to you, it might just be a sport. To most, it's a use of violent force that sometimes ends in permanent bodily injury, or death. Either way, a concealed carry person is going to pull a weapon on you.....and "most" are going to fire a couple of shots when they pull it. You'll never have a chance to get to your weapon to use it.

  10. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapGun View Post
    Great legwork!!!!!!!!!!!
    You have to be half a lawyer to carry a gun these days, lol.

    Thanks.

  11. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    That seems to me to leave all kinds of room for interpretation. Who defines "non-deadly" force? Suppose, in your example of a fist fight, that you give me a good whoopin' and I drop to the ground and you continue to pummel me. There would come a point where your supposed "non-deadly" force becomes deadly. Unfortunately, at that point it would be too late for me to defend myself, 'cause I'm dead. At what point may I end that assault?
    You've answered you own queston, once a man has dropped to the ground and is no longer defending himself and the other continues to attack, the force shows intent to cause serious physical injury or death. The law applies both ways.

    You: (Falls to ground) I've had enough, I've had enough!
    They: (continues attack)
    You: (Pull firearm) Stop, don't make me shoot you!
    They (continues attack)
    You: (Bang Bang)

    This doens't mean that you can fall to the ground right off the bat, you had better have some injuries to show to LE when they show up. This also doesn't factor in other things such as difference in age, disabilities, sex, number of opponents, ect.

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