The Open Carry Argument - Page 16
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. #151
    handgonnetoter Guest
    I just hope that NONE of us end up in some kind of fight nowadays. I am sure that pretty much all of us have read the Ayoob files in certain gun magazines in the past. It seems to me that getting out from under a legal battle over who did right and who did wrong is almost impossible these days. Some of the stuff I read in those articles really pisses me off on how the guy in the right takes a legal hit no matter what the circumstance. We are arguing definate rights and wrongs on this subject, but if in a fight, will be tried under a legal system that if full of shades of grey. It makes me sick, the money grubbing lawyers and the system.

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  3. #152
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    I'm sorry if I missed your point. Please excuse me then.
    Not a problem.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  4. Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    I just hope that NONE of us end up in some kind of fight nowadays. I am sure that pretty much all of us have read the Ayoob files in certain gun magazines in the past. It seems to me that getting out from under a legal battle over who did right and who did wrong is almost impossible these days. Some of the stuff I read in those articles really pisses me off on how the guy in the right takes a legal hit no matter what the circumstance. We are arguing definate rights and wrongs on this subject, but if in a fight, will be tried under a legal system that if full of shades of grey. It makes me sick, the money grubbing lawyers and the system.
    I don't know where this "civil suit" stuff came from, when there are no criminal charges against someone, or they have been found "not guilty" in criminal court. The Constitution never said it's OK to be tried twice, if it's one criminal, and one civil case. It said double jeopardy is ILLEGAL.

    There should be ample proof there are GROUNDS for ANY suit before it is brought before a court and taxpayer money is wasted. Not to mention the money the innocent party has to pony up just to defend a case that should never have been permitted to occur.

    We need SERIOUS TORT REFORM in this country!!

  5. #154
    btt / OC ban defeated in CA!!!

    http://californiaopencarry.org/

  6. #155
    I am from Los Angeles county and since I have researched in depth, the OC law here I am wondering what places one DOESN'T carry.

  7. #156
    Well, this is how we do it in Seattle. Oh, and it's loaded:


  8. Not the only reason to CCW

    There are more reasons to NOT open carry than the "I just don't feel comfortable OCing". While I see the argument that open carry will deter a BG from confronting you, I don't think it's the best course of action. Just my PO.

    For example (some of you probably have heard about this), last November a gunman walked into a coffee shop near Tacoma, WA and killed 4 cops sitting inside. The incident seemed to be premeditated (I don't know if it was, but it's likely). In this instance, open carry by 4 trained individuals did nothing.

    Now, in that case, concealed carry wouldn't have done anything either. I understand that. But my point is this: Lets say you were standing in line at another coffee shop waiting to order. Gunman walks in with intent to rob/take hostages/or just start shooting because he had a bad day. You're gun is strapped to your hip, in plain sight. Gunman sees you as a threat, before you see him. You take shots to the back without realizing there was a threat in the first place. Game over.

    If your weapon was concealed, he would not have immediately perceived you as a threat. His attention would focus elsewhere, giving you time to make your decision to engage or not, depending on all types of situational factors.

    If you're concerned about quick access to your weapon, practice drawing from concealment. I'm nearly as quick from concealment as I am from open carry, and I usually dress to accommodate a quicker draw.

    Like I said, this is just my humble $.02, but I wouldn't much like getting shot in the back.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bralko85 View Post
    There are more reasons to NOT open carry than the "I just don't feel comfortable OCing". While I see the argument that open carry will deter a BG from confronting you, I don't think it's the best course of action. Just my PO.

    For example (some of you probably have heard about this), last November a gunman walked into a coffee shop near Tacoma, WA and killed 4 cops sitting inside. The incident seemed to be premeditated (I don't know if it was, but it's likely). In this instance, open carry by 4 trained individuals did nothing.

    Now, in that case, concealed carry wouldn't have done anything either. I understand that. But my point is this: Lets say you were standing in line at another coffee shop waiting to order. Gunman walks in with intent to rob/take hostages/or just start shooting because he had a bad day. You're gun is strapped to your hip, in plain sight. Gunman sees you as a threat, before you see him. You take shots to the back without realizing there was a threat in the first place. Game over.

    If your weapon was concealed, he would not have immediately perceived you as a threat. His attention would focus elsewhere, giving you time to make your decision to engage or not, depending on all types of situational factors.

    If you're concerned about quick access to your weapon, practice drawing from concealment. I'm nearly as quick from concealment as I am from open carry, and I usually dress to accommodate a quicker draw.

    Like I said, this is just my humble $.02, but I wouldn't much like getting shot in the back.
    It's pretty lame when a person has to resort to comparing a pre-meditated hit on four uniformed police officers to an open carrier getting shot standing in line waiting for coffee. The Brady Bunch and the Violence Policy Center also have to make such far fetched comparisons to support their position. But if that works for you, go for it. I don't buy it.

    Seriously... the cops were shot because they were wearing blue uniforms and badges, not because they were wearing guns.

  10. #159
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
    Posts
    3,487
    Sorry to jump in but my post on another OC thread concerning SC Law is applicable and I think relevant (redundant?)

    ALL that use the same argument against OC use the process of thinking that a tactical plan has been established, hit the guys/gals carrying OC then complete the mission. TAKE OUT the OC's first. That thinking is great if you're actually planing a mission. BUT MOST violent crime that's committed is NOT by a professional, military minded criminal. MOST are crimes of opportunity and convenience. Yes some are planned but I have yet to read any credible story that Joe Citizen was targeted by BG's first prior to robbing the store, the bank Yadda-YAdda-Yadda.
    Deterrent of OC and or the thought of CC will and does keep most criminals from committing crimes. The stats prove it.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  11. #160
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    I don't know where this "civil suit" stuff came from, when there are no criminal charges against someone, or they have been found "not guilty" in criminal court. The Constitution never said it's OK to be tried twice, if it's one criminal, and one civil case. It said double jeopardy is ILLEGAL.

    There should be ample proof there are GROUNDS for ANY suit before it is brought before a court and taxpayer money is wasted. Not to mention the money the innocent party has to pony up just to defend a case that should never have been permitted to occur.

    We need SERIOUS TORT REFORM in this country!!
    I am just writing down what I read in the various gun magazines I get. There have been a number of court cases, that they tell about in the magazines, where the state finds the accused not guilty of charges from the state, but end up getting sued by the family of the bad guy in a civil trial for money or whatever. I would list the magazines here for you to look up the stories for yourself, but I don't know if I am allowed to do that on this forum or not.

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