The Open Carry Argument - Page 34
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. #331
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    If a cop yells at me for not informing him(her) about the gun I am NOT carrying it says alot about the cop, all bad in my opinion. And when the cop finds out I do have a permit it should make the cop breath easier. However many(not all) cops believe that since they are somehow superior to us ordinary mortals(average citizens) only they should be able to own or carry guns.

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  3. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    However many(not all) cops believe that since they are somehow superior to us ordinary mortals(average citizens) only they should be able to own or carry guns.
    The liberals in our government spread the belief that only the police should have guns, and it only follows that many police will start believing it.

    The liberal "intellectuals" think that average Joe doesnt need a gun and shouldnt be trusted with one, and they spread this opinion to the entire country. Much of the population soaks up this opinion and when the police departments hire from the population, there will be a lot of cops who have bought into this crap.

    Many of us gun owners tend to be part of the "silent majority", and unfortunately, those anti-gunners are not so silent, and they are working every day to make their beliefs be the prevailing belief in society. They rule the media, they conduct biased research, and they sure as heck like to be vocal about their opinions.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    In Michigan, our law reads that we must inform LEOs if we are stopped, AND if we are packing. If we are not packing, there is no duty for us to inform. However, I've seen some minor horror stories of people who were stopped, were not packing, yet the LEO yelled and berated them for NOT telling him about their "gun" that they didn't have when he ran their license, and it came up with info saying they have a CPL.

    I have advised friends of mine, if stopped, their best course of action, if they don't have a firearm but do have a CPL is to advise the officer, that yes, they have a CPL, but are not currently armed. It might save them a minor drama scene at the traffic stop.

    Myself, I get around that situation by ALWAYS packing. So I always hand over my CPL along with my driving license, registration and proof of insurance, whenever I'm stopped.

    Big Al, you're doing it the right way, in my opinion. It's just common sense. That officer wants to go home safely at the end of his/her shift. There are enough gangbangers as it is that are racking, and the cop has to find out the hard way. The least we can do is make it as easy as possible on the cop. I don't "spill my guts " to cops, but I don't clam up either. I handle exchanges with them the same way they handle it with me. If they want to be a wiseguy, they will get nothing in return from me but flack. I respect police officers, but I am NOT intimidated by them. I have had experiences with very good ones, and unfortunately, I have bad experiences with some REAL lazy ones....especially female LEO's.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by ESD View Post
    Safety. Thats it? They deal with all kinds of criminal elements while on duty. All they're asking of us, is to inform them if we "are" armed. Before the LEO even approaches our vehicle; he knows we are CPL. In Ohio, it is the armed citizen's duty to inform to the LEO if we "are" indeed armed at the first opportunity. It is advised by CPL instructors to inform them whether your armed or not. I don't agree with this. I inform if I'm armed only. Otherwise, if that officer feels so inclined to ask if there are any weapons in the vehicle, I can ask him why he's asking? Why? Because he already knows I'm CPL. If I haven't informed him that I'm not carrying, then I've not broken any laws have I? At this point, LE asking me if there are any weapons in the vehicle, is like me asking him if he has a K-9 dog with him? Just because it says K-9 on the car, doesn't mean he has the dog? And he probably doesn't have to tell me if he does or not? Duty to inform is for safety only. Why they react the way they do sometimes is a mystery to me too? If they are as well versed in the law as most of them claim to be, then we wouldn't have all the issues of open carry that we do.
    During the UT training class last March, our UT CWP instructor told us that a) there was no duty to inform in AL and b) he didn't recommend informing the officer unless asked or asked to step out of the vehicle. So not all CWP instructors advise informing upon a simple traffic stop.

    That's my policy also. Although in my case, talk is cheap since I don't get pulled over very often; about once every 5 years or so (watch me get a ticket on the way home today.....).

  6. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    Big Al, you're doing it the right way, in my opinion. It's just common sense. That officer wants to go home safely at the end of his/her shift. There are enough gangbangers as it is that are racking, and the cop has to find out the hard way. The least we can do is make it as easy as possible on the cop. I don't "spill my guts " to cops, but I don't clam up either. I handle exchanges with them the same way they handle it with me. If they want to be a wiseguy, they will get nothing in return from me but flack. I respect police officers, but I am NOT intimidated by them. I have had experiences with very good ones, and unfortunately, I have bad experiences with some REAL lazy ones....especially female LEO's.
    I've only encountered 2 female LEOs in my travels, and in both cases the were friendly ones. The first was a DNR officer, who was training a rookie. I encountered them at a DNR range, when they stopped by just to see who was there shooting, in the AM. They asked me what time I started, I told them, it was 9:05AM by my watch when I started. They had a complaint, someone was there before 9:00AM (the posted starting time), I informed them there was a pickup that left as I was coming in. I gave all the details I could recall.

    They thanked me, and the female DNR cop asked me about the Bulgarian Makarov I was OCing at the time. (The rookie hadn't even noticed.) Basically, she asked how I liked it, if it shot well, was it Russian, East German, Chinese or Bulgarian. (I had provided all my ID documents when they first arrived, so she knew I was legal to OC into and out of my vehicle, as well as while in it) I think we chatted about the various types for about 5 minutes. She has an East German Mak, and it is sometimes her off duty backup. They went on about their business, and I went about mine.

    The 2nd time, I was stopped by an East Lansing motorcycle cop, who turned out to be female. I was on my way to work, so I was in my security uniform. She stopped me because I had a headlight out (that I didn't know of, so it must have happened recently to my leaving home). She was very professional, and polite. And I didn't even get a fix it ticket. She just advised me to get it fixed ASAP, so no one else stops me.

    I don't know if I'm just lucky, or maybe the LEOs around here have had more training in how to handle legal packers, but I've yet to run into a bad situation with any LEO while carrying, here in Michigan.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  7. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    During the UT training class last March, our UT CWP instructor told us that a) there was no duty to inform in AL and b) he didn't recommend informing the officer unless asked or asked to step out of the vehicle. So not all CWP instructors advise informing upon a simple traffic stop.

    That's my policy also. Although in my case, talk is cheap since I don't get pulled over very often; about once every 5 years or so (watch me get a ticket on the way home today.....).
    In NY there is no requirement to notifiy LE. I advise students not to say anything unless asked.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    In NY there is no requirement to notifiy LE. I advise students not to say anything unless asked.
    What about NYC?

    Personally, I find it rather silly that NYC can issue a permit that the rest of the state will recognize, but the state permit is not recognized in NYC. Maybe NYC should just become it's own state?
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  9. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    You do it your way, and I'll do it my way. Whether or not it is written in the law, it is implied that you let the officer know you are carrying. And why else would you need to show your permit, IF, you are not carrying and had no gun in the car? Besides, when the officer sees that gun permit, one of the first questions he's going to ask is ""Are you carrying now?" or "Where is the gun?" . Just makes sense to tell the LEO right off the bat.

    Oh, and don't post anymore statements saying "in S.C. we....." or "most of us in S,C,..." . I am in S.C. too and don't live too far from you(less than 3 miles), and I can definitely say that YOU aren't the spokesman for South Carolinian Gun owners. And we DON'T walk around with guns on our hips to go shooting, if we are getting out of the vehicle...YOU MAY, but then again, that's exactly what I'd expect of you. That act only invites unwanted attention from citizens and LEO's. We are NOT an OPEN CARRY State...so it is VERY STRANGE to see someone walking around with a firearm on their hip, with no ID that says "police".
    GOV,

    You wrote, "Oh, and don't post...blah, blah, blah"??? What? Are you serious? To quote you, "You do it your way, and I'll do it my way."

    FACT: MANY of us do open carry going to/from hunting, fishing, and shooting. Again, this is a simple statement of fact. Again, it is absolutely legal. We ARE an open carry state in the context I stated, and I know of not one single person that has ever even been questioned by police for this. In the more rural areas of OUR state, folks will open carry at the gas station or in Walmart when getting bait for fishing. I don't do this, and I don't recommend it. But I mention it to stress that of the people I know who do this, not one has EVER been stopped or questioned by police.

    Regarding whether or not you have to inform the officer that you are carrying, I was clarifying the law, since this site is read by so many people. I did not comment on what I would do or what anyone else SHOULD do, only the law. Since I haven't interviewed the writer(s) of the law, I don't know their intent. Maybe they wrote it that way (permit holder only required to show permit) to protect the privacy of the permit holder (not required to reveal how many, what type, or location of concealed weapons). Unlike you, I'm not making any assumptions in what I wrote. I do agree it is common courtesy to let the officer know where your weapon is, but again, I was clarifying the law AS WRITTEN.

    It is unclear to me what you meant about the gun being "in the car", so I'll clarify that one as well for our readers. If you have a pistol in your console or glove, loaded or not, you have absolutely no obligation to mention it to police. You are not concealed carrying.

    You may be less than 3 miles from me geographically, but we're worlds apart on many issues. This is a great forum to express and explore our differences. In the future, if you feel like censoring my speech, at least properly quote me.
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  10. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    What about NYC?

    Personally, I find it rather silly that NYC can issue a permit that the rest of the state will recognize, but the state permit is not recognized in NYC. Maybe NYC should just become it's own state?
    NYC permits are not recognized state-wide. They are good only in NYC. Permits granted at the state level are not valid in NYC. That city is an entirely different country from upstate. They have separated from the state on many areas of the law. Many in the upstate region wish NYC would secede from the state. This is a city of foreigners where a large percentage of the population doesn't even speak English. Foreigners don't like guns. They come from countries where peiple can't own a gun. They represent a voting block that comprises nearly 40% of the state vote and thus keep setting the rules for the entire state.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    NYC permits are not recognized state-wide. They are good only in NYC. Permits granted at the state level are not valid in NYC. That city is an entirely different country from upstate. They have separated from the state on many areas of the law. Many in the upstate region wish NYC would secede from the state. This is a city of foreigners where a large percentage of the population doesn't even speak English. Foreigners don't like guns. They come from countries where peiple can't own a gun. They represent a voting block that comprises nearly 40% of the state vote and thus keep setting the rules for the entire state.
    Sheesh, based on that last sentence alone, if I lived in the state, but not the city, I'd push for kicking NYC out of the state, either make them go on their own, or give them to New Jersey. Of course, that might start a war between NJ and NY.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

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