The Open Carry Argument - Page 37
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. "And anyway, you didn't give up your citizenship when you took the oath, right? "

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

    Well, sorta they did. LOL! They are under the UCMJ, which is a whole other set of laws.

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  3. Exactly what, or how, did you folks do that? I like the idea, whatever it was.
    I have asked local cops several questions about gun laws, and I get answers that range from "I have no idea" to incorrect, to spot on. My point is that cops don't know the law as well as most people think they do. Especially when it comes to gun laws.

    SO, in my opinion only, if you were getting harassed, it was a definite pro-action directive from a police supervisor. And that would be grounds for a law suit. And as you say, I'm am not anti-cop. But I am "anti-stupid/lazy/oppressive cop!

    I'm glad your efforts worked in that city. I have ever experienced that type of treatment. I would probably have been taken to the pokey, because I would have probably exploded when some dumb cop detained me when I was not breaking any laws, when he/she didn't know the laws themselves.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by shermr View Post
    I get tired of the argument over open and concealed carry fairly quickly. I many states open carry will get you nothing but harassment or arrest because it is either not legal or not tolerated. If you don't wish to spend time making your point in the back of a squad car you open carry only where open carry is a common practice. Concealed carry or open carry in the most accepted manner will go a long way toward personal protection, meeting legal mandates, and causing less friction from law enforcement and the public.
    What in the heck does this statement mean?

    Who decides what "the most accepted manner" is? How is carrying "in the most accepted manner" going to meet "legal mandates" (whatever that is)?

    How is carrying "in the most accepted manner" going to reduce friction from law enforcement and/or the public?

  5. #364
    These are all great points for discusion as both sides have some pretty good aguments. personally I carry concealed when at the store or any other place of buisness, but around home i often go outside on my street in the oc mode. we all need to be aware of our surroundings and to decide for ourselves which meathod of carry suits that givin circumstance.

  6. #365
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    And there are times when I do decide that concealed carry is best - but "tolerance" has no bearing on that decision.
    Couldn't agree more with this!
    "Governments don't live together, people live together. With governments you don't always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well, I've come to give you either one. Or get either one from you." Josie Wales

  7. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    During the UT training class last March, our UT CWP instructor told us that a) there was no duty to inform in AL and b) he didn't recommend informing the officer unless asked or asked to step out of the vehicle. So not all CWP instructors advise informing upon a simple traffic stop.

    That's my policy also. Although in my case, talk is cheap since I don't get pulled over very often; about once every 5 years or so (watch me get a ticket on the way home today.....).
    I think Big Gay Al said it earlier...they run our license, they already know if we are CHP. However, Ohio law requires us to inform LE when we are armed only? If they've already run our plate, don't they know we could be, and ask us just the same? Why do we have to have the "duty" to inform them? But as it is, the law here requires it be done that way?
    "Governments don't live together, people live together. With governments you don't always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well, I've come to give you either one. Or get either one from you." Josie Wales

  8. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by shermr View Post
    I get tired of the argument over open and concealed carry fairly quickly. I many states open carry will get you nothing but harassment or arrest because it is either not legal or not tolerated. If you don't wish to spend time making your point in the back of a squad car you open carry only where open carry is a common practice. Concealed carry or open carry in the most accepted manner will go a long way toward personal protection, meeting legal mandates, and causing less friction from law enforcement and the public.
    You said, "In many states open carry will get you nothing but harassment or arrest because it is either not legal or not tolerated".

    Well, none of us are talking about open carrying in states where it is illegal. That will absolutely get you in the back of the squad car, and then some! As far as toleration goes...preemption takes care of local jurisdictions, local gun laws or bans are illegal if they conflict with the State or Federal laws. The last sentence you posted is why we have laws. They protect us against "friction from law enforcement and the public." But only if Law Enforcement and the public know the laws, before creating unneccessary friction for law abiding citizens exercising their constitutional right to bear arms.

    I feel like any citizen who calls law enforcement in a panic "just" because they see me openly carrying a firearm, has already infringed on my civil right to be legally armed. I've been told more than once that "ignorance is no defense when breaking the law". So who's inducing the panic?....Me for legally openly carrying my firearm, or the uninformed citizen who called LE, and induced panic in them?

    Once the public quits criminalizing the act of carrying firearms, then the realization of "seeing" firearms on a regular basis in public, will be a normal activity. But until then, we have to rely on the LEO's knowledge of his state's gun laws, to decide the outcome of our confrontations with them. My lawyer will handle any unlawful actions taken against me by LE, for legally carrying my firearm.
    "Governments don't live together, people live together. With governments you don't always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well, I've come to give you either one. Or get either one from you." Josie Wales

  9. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESD View Post
    I think Big Gay Al said it earlier...they run our license, they already know if we are CHP. However, Ohio law requires us to inform LE when we are armed only? If they've already run our plate, don't they know we could be, and ask us just the same? Why do we have to have the "duty" to inform them? But as it is, the law here requires it be done that way?
    I often wondered how that works. When they run the plate before approaching the car does it pop up for the registration owner? Does he know before he approaches the car or does it pop when he runs the DL? What if the driver is not the registered owner?
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ESD View Post
    I think Big Gay Al said it earlier...they run our license, they already know if we are CHP. However, Ohio law requires us to inform LE when we are armed only? If they've already run our plate, don't they know we could be, and ask us just the same? Why do we have to have the "duty" to inform them? But as it is, the law here requires it be done that way?
    In OH and other states that require informing, you're sorta screwed. Not us in AL. It's up to us to decide. Some choose to tell all, some choose not to. I'm in the "choose not to" camp. My life and my safety are just as important as any other human being, including LEO's - why should they be treated special?

    Furthermore, I'll start worrying about making a cop feel "comfortable" about my firearm when cops start dismantling the "thin blue line" - Harless should have been fired due to another cop, not a youtube video.

  11. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I often wondered how that works. When they run the plate before approaching the car does it pop up for the registration owner? Does he know before he approaches the car or does it pop when he runs the DL? What if the driver is not the registered owner?
    Yeah, before he's even approached the stopped vehicle, he has run the plate. It will pop up automatically if the vehicle is registered to a CHP. He/she will know that there is already the possibility that there could be a firearm in the vehicle.

    I told my wife to keep an eye on the officer when he's approaching the vehicle. If he appears to be clutching his firearm, just put your hands on the steering wheel, and tell him your not CHL and there's no firearm in the car.

    The only reason I tell her to do this is because she's disabled with a bad back, and I don't want her to get roughed up by some overly aggressive LEO. Easier just to keep the hands in plain sight, until he/she can determine that the wife doesn't possess a firearm. Sometimes you have to pick which rights to fight for. I can't replace her for merely the inconvenience of a traffic stop.

    If the driver is not the CHL, I think the LEO will have that figured out when they hand him their DL. It won't have the registered owners name on it. The driver will just have to explain why they're driving the vehicle I guess?
    "Governments don't live together, people live together. With governments you don't always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well, I've come to give you either one. Or get either one from you." Josie Wales

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