The Open Carry Argument - Page 51
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    Although the comparison is a little uncomfortable I would compare open carry to the public display of homosexuality. Those that do it put it in front of the public to see and "get used to it" whether they want to or not.
    If that were my motivation, I could accomplish the same thing by having the 2nd Amendment tattooed on my forehead. Between that and my open carried weapon, most rational folks would "get used to it whether they want to or not" rather than confront with an eye towards victimizing me, I feel relatively safe in assuming.

    But then, I don't care if they get used to it or not, because that isn't my motivation. My motivation is singular. No political statements intended by it, though obviously, as your post demonstrates, some folks will think they understand my motivations for doing just about anything with exactly zero input from me about it. I have no control over that, but I do have the ability to correct the errant assumption, so here it is:

    I do intend to draw a minor amount of attention to myself from one group, and one group only - criminals who would mistake me for the easy mark that concealed carriers are mistaken for every single day of the week. I want those who think I'm just another average victim to them to know beforehand that they're getting ready to try to victimize someone who is visibly prepared to defend against it. In the overwhelming majority of such random and unquantifiable encounters, it is my belief, based on my own personal experience and that of many others with whom I communicate regularly, that victimizers will choose to ignore me as a potential victim rather than taking the chance that the consequence for trying will be their own funeral. Criminals by and large are cowards. My openly carried firearm gives them something their inherent cowardice can feed on. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    Open carry is the same sort of "in your face" activism that has worked so well for the gay community and it's time we started using it as well.
    Utter nonsense. Open carry is a tactical decision first and foremost, and any acceptance of normalcy that the sheeple get from it is a side-effect at best. And I've never gotten in anyone's face about OC. Exercising a right in one's daily life is not "activism," it's exercising a right and that's all. Our Founding Fathers already did the activism for us. The fact that Texas (or wherever) is only now getting around to recognize OC as every bit as much of an exercise of 2nd Amendment rights as concealed carry is only means that state's government has been oppressive of your rights for all these years, not that folks who have convinced them to relax the oppressive laws are somehow different in nature to those who've enjoyed the privilege of CC all this time.

    There is nothing even remotely comparable between one group who forces their lifestyle on a reticent, wary public, and another group who chooses one way of exercising a fundamental, enumerated right over another way of exercising the same right. The right preexisted ratification of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and no particular way of carrying a weapon was ever contemplated once the right was acknowledged within the Constitution through the inclusion of it in the BoR. Practicing OC isn't asking society to change its moral values, it's nothing more than an embracing of the societal norms articulated within our most vaunted founding documents.

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    ....and I feel that openly displaying a firearm may take options away from me.
    Or it may take options away from those who would victimize you before they actually try. Does such a criminal just go home after they've decided that the odds aren't in their favor at the sight of an OC'ed weapon? Nope, certainly not in most cases I would presume. They most-likely walk down the block and choose another more vulnerable-looking victim, and that may well be a CC'er who not only has to react to an imminent threat, but has to do so from under concealment and possibly while using his/her weak hand to defend against an attack. That's the rationale for OC, that it deters victimization, while CC just makes one look like every other potential victim. Nothing's guaranteed to be sure, but if you've got a logical basis for being in opposition to the stated rationale, you'll be the first that most of us have ever heard, because the logic in the rationale is rather undeniable, whether or not it can be proven that it works as-intended xxx% of the time.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #502
    Bloomberg mom lies in testimony about Texas Open Carry hearing.

    Moms Demand Action Witness Caught Misleading Texas State Senators During Testimony

    She should be locked up.

  4. #503
    Isn't that a shocker!
    A bunch of liars... One of them caught lying...

  5. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    Bloomberg mom lies in testimony about Texas Open Carry hearing.

    Moms Demand Action Witness Caught Misleading Texas State Senators During Testimony

    She should be locked up.
    She lied about the murder weapon...did she lie about her son having an "arsenal" too? If she didn't, and her son had an arsenal, it seems he never used his firearms wrongfully...just as pipe wrench and knife...

    This isn't about a mentally unstable son...it's about a mentally unstable family.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. Ten of thousands or who know how many bad guys do not report I was going to rob a store however saw a person with a firearm decided to move on to a gun free store or find another victim. That would be some usable data if they did.
    CCing has it place however while CCing one looks like all the other targets ready to be picked out as the next victim.
    John Stossel had a special I believe it was in 2010 where he interviewed several inmates asked them what they were most afraid of when committing their crime. They all said the armed citizen.

  7. #506
    Recently visited my family in another state. It is an open carry state. My son, grandsons and their wives all open carry. I have a couple of permits from my state and others and carried concealed. No one ever questioned or , to the best of my knowledge, ever gave us the "strange stair" for carrying. we went to resturants, businesses, and had a range day. I found it all very cool. I live in an open carry state myself, but rarely see anyone carry open.

  8. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by threecentermass View Post
    I agree with open carry, BUT in this town (Fallon, Nevada). I was told by the manager of the Wal-Mart store, CC would be tolerated, but, Open Carry will not be allowed in HIS STORE. I have asked the local law enforcement dept. both city and county. I was told Nevada is a OPEN CARRY state. But was it worth the hassel that you will experience if " SOMEONE SEES YOU ? they must ( law enforcement ) responde to all calls " person with a gun ". I still think that OC is the way to go. Like they say "Hyenas avoid the Lion.
    That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

    The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...0&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.
    Highly recommended reading:
    .
    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

  9. Quote Originally Posted by schadenfreude View Post
    That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

    The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...0&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.
    I'm glad we don't have that problem in Washington. After a couple of successful lawsuits against different police departments across the state, 911 operators are being trained to screen calls and most won't make it past the 911 operator. They ask a simple question - "What is the person with gun actually doing and where is the gun?" If the answer is, "Well, he's pushing his kid in a swing in a park and the gun is in a holster!" The 911 answer is, "Well, then, there is no need for police presence because there is no indication that a crime is being committed."

    Also, if the police "must respond", they can show up, see the man shopping in Wal Mart with a gun in a holster, and sign it off. No requirement to interact with the person carrying the gun and if the 911 operators aren't screening the calls - that just isn't my problem - they need to start interacting with the people illegally calling 911, not the law abiding citizens shopping with a lawfully carried firearm in a holster.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by schadenfreude View Post
    That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

    The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...0&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.
    I live in Ohio and OC every time I leave the house, except during cold weather when I have to wear a coat. I reside just south of Canton/Akron area and have never had a LEO called on me for MWAG. I have not had a individual accost me for open carrying either in Ohio (Indiana that is another story). I know a number of LEO's and know they are fully aware of our rights as citizens in Ohio to open carry, none of them are looking for trouble they just want to get through their day and go home, granted that isn't the mentality of all LEO's and the information they may receive from 911 may not always be completely accurate. BUT that should not be a deterrent to any of us who wish to OC. I will not allow ignorance or arrogance to keep me from exercising my rights as I see them legally.
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

  11. #510
    Why is there a "open carry argument" ? You either do or you don't. You can or you can't. End of argument.........

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