The Open Carry Argument - Page 52
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. #511
    Now this was short and simple. No more no less. However, I see this going on for ages upon ages.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    Why is there a "open carry argument" ? You either do or you don't. You can or you can't. End of argument.........
    "Undocumented Second Amendment Supporter, fighting against suppression of mandatory background checks."

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  3. #512
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    Why?

    Because open carry gets attacked by concealed carriers and anti gun nuts all the time...

    Why is there a "gun rights" issue at all?
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #513
    We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.
    What advantage? You just told us, "I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an 'attitude' about him. It made a few people nervous." Well, guess what....a criminal looking for a quick steal of a wallet with the least amount of hassle (which is what the vast majority of criminals are looking for - easy targets with no hassle) is going to feel the same way about that same guy and just pass on him and move on down the street one block or wait 5 minutes for the next guy to come along who looks just like everyone else. It's people like you who seem to have the attitude of, "Just wait till some criminal attacks me so I can whip out my 'element of surprise' and pop a cap in his a$$!" That is much less of an advantage than to never be chosen as a target of opportunity to begin with.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.
    Watt an emotional filled liberal argument...
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.
    So you had a super-secret holster installed by your proctologist? All you really know is that no one approached you about your gun. We all print or expose part of the gun at some point.
    Both OCers and CCers can have attitudes .

    The advantages of either carry method over the other are variable and depend on circumstances of the specific case, has bad guy deployed weapon, how close are innocents, how many BGs, how quickly and accurately can good guy deploy the gun, etc.
    I carry concealed. I am not automatically critical of anyone’s choice of carry. My state allows only CC, and that is with a license. If it passed OC I would probably still do CC in most areas I frequent. Travelling in unknown areas I would most likely carry OC. Yes, I may be taking an extra risk in one and scaring people in the other.

  8. #517
    Concealed means concealed and not printing. No, we don't all print.

  9. The definition of concealed is often defined by state law or not specifically defined. Here is a small sample. Searching and listing every state would take too much time and space.

    North Dakota:

    62.1-04-01. Definition of concealed. A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily discernible”.
    Chapter 62.1-04 Concealed Weapons :: 2012 North Dakota Century Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

    Illinois:
    “ "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle”.
    430*ILCS*66/**Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

    Nevada:
    “NRS 202.3653 Definitions.  As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:

    1.  “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded handgun which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation”.
    https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...#NRS202Sec3653

  10. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    We know who is armed when you open carry.
    And I'm damn glad of it because when the bad guy knows I have a gun to fight back with he more than likely will leave me alone and attack someone who looks like he doesn't have a gun. I'd much rather the bad guy attack someone else than have him attack me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    but you don't know who is carrying concealed.
    And neither does the bad guy so he sees me open carrying and leaves me alone but he sees you and you look just like all the other unarmed prey.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases.
    Really? Think about this:

    About that "element of surprise" thing..........

    CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

    With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

    With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

    But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

    Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

    Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

    And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

    I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous.
    GOOD!!! I bet all the nervous people left the guy alone! And if ordinary people get nervous think about how nervous the bad guy will be too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.
    Big deal. The thing some concealed carriers miss is the simple fact is that nobody (whether they are open carriers or not), not even the bad guy, gives a crap about that super ninja "element of surprise" hidden gun secret. Law abiders don't give a crap about your secret and the bad guy doesn't know you have a secret because you look exactly like all the other unarmed prey. Which brings us right back to I'd rather open carry and let you be on the 6 o'clock news instead of me.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  11. #520
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    Is it just me, or does sr9 just keep getting more senile as the days go by?

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