The Open Carry Argument - Page 59
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Thread: The Open Carry Argument

  1. Quote Originally Posted by preventec47 View Post
    On another note who among the open carry crowd would not agree that it is a great advantage for the bad guys to not know who is armed.
    I agree that it is a great advantage to the bad guy to know who is armed. It greatly aids in their target selection process. Why would the bad guy attempt to rob a convenience store if they can see there is an armed person present? Why would the bad guy pick the person on the street they can see is armed to attack? All the bad guy has to do is wait a few minutes for the armed person to leave the convenience store before robbing it. Or go to the next store down the street where there are no guns visible. Or let the armed person walk past them on the street and wait a few minutes for the next potential victim to come along who is not visibly armed.

    So, yes, the bad guy knowing who is armed is a great advantage to them. It allows them the opportunity to avoid a confrontation with an armed victim, an opportunity which the vast majority of criminals will gladly take. Now, as the potential target that the criminal is likely to pass over because they can see my gun, I have accomplished my goal. Call me a coward. I don't carry my gun to dispatch the criminals of this world to whatever is beyond. I carry my gun to protect myself and my family and the greatest way to protect myself and my family is to be the undesirable target that most criminals just won't be willing to take the chance with.

    There are no absolutes in life, only odds. And odds are in favor that, given the choice, most criminals of opportunity are going to seek the easy targets, not the targets that are showing the capability to end their lives. So I will continue to bet on the odds of being passed on by the criminal, but I will also be prepared when those odds don't work out.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. The argument brought forward is always that the bad guy will target the open carry person first in order to better his chances for success.

    I've never read any shooter or armed attacker story where this was actually the case.

    I open carry regularly, was in the bank yesterday while doing so.

    Am I also fully capable of being the "gray man?" Absolutely.

  4. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I agree that it is a great advantage to the bad guy to know who is armed. It greatly aids in their target selection process. Why would the bad guy attempt to rob a convenience store if they can see there is an armed person present? Why would the bad guy pick the person on the street they can see is armed to attack? All the bad guy has to do is wait a few minutes for the armed person to leave the convenience store before robbing it. Or go to the next store down the street where there are no guns visible. Or let the armed person walk past them on the street and wait a few minutes for the next potential victim to come along who is not visibly armed.

    So, yes, the bad guy knowing who is armed is a great advantage to them. It allows them the opportunity to avoid a confrontation with an armed victim, an opportunity which the vast majority of criminals will gladly take. Now, as the potential target that the criminal is likely to pass over because they can see my gun, I have accomplished my goal. Call me a coward. I don't carry my gun to dispatch the criminals of this world to whatever is beyond. I carry my gun to protect myself and my family and the greatest way to protect myself and my family is to be the undesirable target that most criminals just won't be willing to take the chance with.

    There are no absolutes in life, only odds. And odds are in favor that, given the choice, most criminals of opportunity are going to seek the easy targets, not the targets that are showing the capability to end their lives.
    Open carrying will either make you or not make you a deterrent or a soft target but it's funny how you lean towards in such a way that is trying to convince us that a criminal will most likely automatically avoid you at all costs if he sees you carrying. I highly disagree but that's just me. Everybody I've talked to about it, friend or stranger disagrees with this as well but you know what, it doesn't matter. You carry however you wish. If you're confident that your gun being openly carried for the whole world around you to see won't ever cause a problem, then I guess you have nothing to worry about.

    Not trying to change your opinion or convince you not to open carry, how you carry is your business but let's say you're standing in line at a 7-11 and you get popped in the back of the head by the bad guy who's about to hold the place up because he sees you carrying? It's game over for you. Or, the guy walks to the door with his gun in a coat pocket and as soon as he clears the door, you get popped. Are you gonna have time to react? He's already got the upper hand. Criminals don't go walking around openly showing their gun. They don't want you to know they have a gun. They want the element of surprise.

  5. #584

    The Open Carry Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
    The argument brought forward is always that the bad guy will target the open carry person first in order to better his chances for success.
    I don't think it's always, but it's highly possible. It also depends on your situational awareness too. I prefer not to be looking over my shoulder all the time.

    I've never read any shooter or armed attacker story where this was actually the case.
    Do a quick Google search. I found a few stories fairly quick.

    But again, it doesn't matter what you read. If you do a bit of research, I'm sure you'll probably find equal numbers of stories that back up open carrying as a deterrent and as a soft target. For me, I just choose not to open carry. If those who do want to, that's their business. Hopefully your gun being displayed to many, many eyes will always "scare" the bad guy away.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    I don't think it's always, but it's highly possible. It also depends on your situational awareness too. I prefer not to be looking over my shoulder all the time.

    Do a quick Google search. I found a few stories fairly quick.
    Can you point me to a credible news link and not an anecdotal story on a forum? That's all I found, and frankly those are not credible sources, and often are just stories to enhance myth or opinion.

  7. #586

    The Open Carry Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
    Can you point me to a credible news link and not an anecdotal story on a forum? That's all I found, and frankly those are not credible sources, and often are just stories to enhance myth or opinion.
    I shouldn't have to do the research for you but it's not that hard to find.

    Here's one that discusses several cases.

    Another one....

    And another one...

    But either way as I said, if you look hard enough you'll find equal amounts of information that both supports, and makes open carry a bad idea but that's neither here nor there. You wanna open carry, no one's stopping you. I just don't agree with it which is why the only open carry holsters I own are only used at the range or if I go hiking out in the woods on a trail.

  8. Here's the problem. It's almost impossible to prove a negative. You can come up a mere handful of cases of people openly carrying firearms being attacked. 5 or 6 instances over a spread of several years. Now compare that to how many times someone has been passed over as a target because some factor - such as the visible presence of a gun - has caused the criminal to pass on that particular target. What is the ratio of deterrence to attack? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1? 1 to 100? We'll never know. Because very seldom will a criminal come up to somebody and say, "Man you are so lucky I saw that gun there because I was going to roll you for your wallet until I saw that!" All I know is that common sense would dictate that if the criminal has the choice between the target with the visible gun and the target with no visible means of self defense, the criminal would choose the soft target. But, again, to each their own.

    It's also interesting to note that a large portion of the pro-gun group likes to claim that criminals prefer gun free zones to attack because there is less of a chance of meeting armed resistance. So, according to that theory, it would follow logic that if the mere increased possibility of meeting armed resistance deters criminals and sends them to gun free zones, that knowing they are going to face armed resistance by seeing the gun would deter them even more.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. I've read the Bearings Arms reports. All anecdotal.

  10. #589
    Just because statistics may show that you are more likely to ward off a bad guy by open carrying, it doesn't make it 100%.

    Yes, most bad guys want easy targets; but not all of them prey on easy just despite thewitt's dismissal and referring to the links I posted as questionable.

  11. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
    I've read the Bearings Arms reports. All anecdotal.
    Proof?

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