Negative OC Experiences
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Thread: Negative OC Experiences

  1. Angry Negative OC Experiences

    Hi all! I'm new to this forum, and I've had a couple of negative OC experiences that I'd like to share, and hopefully get some feedback/opinions/advice on how to handle any similar situations in the future.

    BTW, I live in Las Vegas, where OC is completely legal (as far as I know).

    The worst one I had occurred after a target practicing trip out to the lake bed with a friend and my wife. On our way back into town we stopped at a restaurant for food (this was around 2 am) and I still had my handgun on my hip, so I just left it on and we went in to eat. About halfway through our meal, we were interrupted by about four police officers who led us outside and asked us several questions, checked out my gun, and checked out the other firearms in my car (I gave them permission to; they were all legally registered, etc., I had nothing to hide). Anyways, it turned into a long lecture about how OC is a remnant of a bygone era that shouldn't apply anymore (apparently this LEO was quite opposed to armed citizens) and how they HAVE to respond when someone calls with a "he's got a gun" complaint. Apparently, another patron at the restaurant had called us in. After everything checked out, they sent us back in to finish our (now cold) meals.

    Another instance occurred in a shopping mall. I hadn't been in the first store for five minutes when I noticed about five security guards at the entrance to the store I was in. One of them approached me and asked if I was LE. I replied no, and he informed me that only LE is allowed to carry firearms in the mall. I didn't feel like arguing, so I obliged and returned the firearm to my car, but I don't see how that is possible. There is no signage to that effect anywhere outside or inside the mall.

    This last one was more funny than anything else. I was with a friend and we were both OC'ing, and we went into a small gun store to look at some grips for his gun. The guy behind the counter (who was carrying, BTW) took one look at us and said, almost apprehensively, "Are you guys armed?" When we responded in the affirmative, he informed us that we were not allowed to carry in his store and we would have to leave. We obliged, and had a good laugh in the car on the way to the next gun store.

    I guess my point is, I've OC'd a few times without any problems, but I seem to run into paranoid people who are afraid the gun is going to jump out of my holster and start shooting people. The cop in the first story made a point of the fact that I shouldn't OC because it scares people. How should I respond to this kind of stuff? If I'm not breaking any laws, are the police obligated to harass me and run a check every time someone gets spooked?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    If you haven't already done so, check out this video by Professor James Duane. "Don't Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane He talks about why you should NEVER talk to the police, and if you don't believe him, in the second part of the video you'll hear from a detective (turned 3rd year law student) who reinforces what Professor Duane says.

    In the first incident where you were eating at 2am, the police are required to respond whenever they get a "man with a gun" call. How they handle it when they arrive on the scene has a lot to do with the "man with the gun" and other circumstances. The fact that it was 2am may have played a part in why the officer acted the way he did. By that time Krispy Kreme was probably closed, he was probably running low on coffee, and he still had 5 more hours until the end of his shift. When he got the call, he probably thought to himself "oh ****! another wise guy walking around with a gun." After rounding up his posse, they responded and approached you. The way you handled yourself in the BEGINNING of the encounter is what probably set the tone of the encounter. I'm guessing that you presented yourself as being "unsure" of the law. Had you been firm in stating your stance, then things may have gone a little different. For future reference, NEVER allow LE to search your private property without "probable cause" or without a "warrant". Doing so opens the door to a lot of "bad things" and tells the officer that you're not sure of your rights and allows him/her the opportunity to find something to bust you for. Regardless of if you have "nothing to hide" or not, it's generally a very BAD idea. IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), don't play one on television, and didn't stay at a "Holiday Inn Epress" last night, but I do pay my attorney a lot of money to give me legal advice. This is what they have told me. Moving on....

    At the shopping mall, my first response would be "Where's the signs". If you know the legal statute that governs the posting of the signs, blurt that out as well. This will get them thinking. If they still ask you to leave, be polite, respectful, but firm. Comply to the best of your ability, then get as much info on the folks as possible. I carry a note pad and pen in my pocket. As soon as some rent-a-cop gives me crap, I start writing. A lot of times they ask "What are you writing". I then ask for their name, badge or ID number and jot down the time and date. When I get an opportunity (more like after I cool off), I write details of the incident. When I get home or back to my computer, I type up a formal complaint letter and forward it to the proper people. Bottom line is don't let them get away with treating you that way. Write to the proper people, and spend your money where it will be appreciated.

    The incident in the gun shop is totally unacceptable. Please let us know which gun shop it is, so that we can spend our money elsewhere. I know that "The Gun Store" on Tropicana has a sign on the front door. Don't remember the exact wording, but in essence it's either "No concealed weapons" or "No loaded weapons". I'm not sure which one it is, but there's a lot of gun stores that have these signs for insurance purposes. Any gun shop that discourages legal OC is not one that I'll shop at unless absolutely necessary.

    Important thing about OC is keep in mind that if you're doing it somewhere that people aren't exposed to firearms, then expect to be stopped by police. Knowing your rights under the law will make the experience less stressful for you as well as the officers involved in then encounter. I strongly recommend that you find a good "criminal defense" attorney in your area if you haven't done so already. Get their "legal advice" of what you should do and how to go about your business.

    Good luck!




    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  4. I can't watch the video right now, since I'm at work, but I'll definitely check it out when I get home.

    As for the first experience, they didn't give me a chance to handle myself, so to speak. I was sitting at our table, eating my meal, and when I looked up there were about four uniformed officers approaching our table. I noticed the one closest to me had his right hand on his firearm while he pointed at me with his free hand and said "you need to come with me." As I got up, he secured both my hands behind my back with his free hand and led me outside. I thought I was going to be arrested at first! They did the same thing to my friend, but they left my wife alone, if that says anything *cough*sexism*cough*

    Oh, and the lecture! Like I said, there was one cop especially who made it ABUNDANTLY clear he did not trust anyone who wasn't LE with a gun. He told me I shouldn't wear it because "people don't know if you're about to stand up and start skull-poppin' people" (yes, those were pretty much his exact words). He essentially told me that I should leave the gun-carrying to the cops, and if I get mugged or asssaulted, just call 911.

    I'm sorry, it still frustrates me when I think about it. I understand with many people, but this guy has probably seen the consequences of armed victim vs. unarmed victim and knows the probable outcomes of each. How could someone in that position, who carries a gun for his job, be so blatantly anti-second-amendment?

    As for the gun store, it was some little hole-in-the-wall shop. I think it was off of either Sahara or Charleston near Jones, or somewhere in that vicinity. Anyways, it's probably out of business now. I still laugh when I think about it. The owner was GENUINELY shocked that we would have the audacity to carry firearms into his gun store!

    I have patronized The Gun Store on Tropicana for some time, and will keep going back. I love that store, and it's not far from where I live. (And I believe the sign you are referring to says "No loaded weapons" - I've noticed that at a few places). I would discourage anyone in Vegas from shopping at the Las Vegas Gun Range and Firearm Center on Blue Diamond. I have a friend who did a lot of business with them until they royally ripped him off. Plus, that store reeks of machismo sometimes :P

    But, I digress. Thank you for your advice and input :)

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by HounDawg07 View Post
    I have patronized The Gun Store on Tropicana for some time, and will keep going back. I love that store, and it's not far from where I live. (And I believe the sign you are referring to says "No loaded weapons" - I've noticed that at a few places). I would discourage anyone in Vegas from shopping at the Las Vegas Gun Range and Firearm Center on Blue Diamond. I have a friend who did a lot of business with them until they royally ripped him off. Plus, that store reeks of machismo sometimes :P

    But, I digress. Thank you for your advice and input :)

    I've shopped at Las Vegas Gun Range and Firearm Center off of Blue Diamond Rd. I have to agree with the machismo. I got to watch a guy bust his thumb while shooting their .50 AE.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  6. #5
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    Most people in OC legal states are not aware that it is perfectly legal to do so. As such, you have to know that you WILL eventually encounter negativity toward your firearm.

    With regard to the general public, it doesn't matter. Just be polite, friendly, and be an ambassador for the rest of us who carry. The more of us who handle the skeptical public in a good, friendly manner, the less they will be afraid of guns in general.

    Law enforcement, however, is an entirely different story. Sooner or later, you will probably have a run-in with them. First and foremost, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THE LAWS OF YOUR STATE BEFORE YOU CARRY. Know them inside and out -- what you are legally allowed to do and not legal to do.

    Regardless of what happens in a LEO encounter, you should pretty much follow the basics:

    1) Say nothing more than your name and address (if required by your state).
    2) Never voluntarily allow the police to search you or your property (car, house, etc.)
    3) Ask "Am I free to go?" If the answer isn't "no" or something to that effect, walk away. If yes, tell the LEO you are using your right to remain silent, and say nothing more.

    If you do these three things, you can almost never be charged with something "extra" that cops seem to love to dream up when you are doing something legal and they don't like it.

  7. #6
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    Even though it is my right to do so, instances like that are why I choose to conceal my firearm. I have yet to hear of the police being called on a citizen carrying a well-concealed (meaning no printing and otherwise totally undetectable) handgun and being harassed. Furthermore, I prefer for people not to know that I'm armed anyway, for the same reason I prefer for people not to know how much money I'm carrying, or whether or not I have a cell phone (which I always keep on vibrate). To me, it's no one's business.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HounDawg07 View Post
    Hi all! I'm new to this forum, and I've had a couple of negative OC experiences that I'd like to share, and hopefully get some feedback/opinions/advice on how to handle any similar situations in the future.

    BTW, I live in Las Vegas, where OC is completely legal (as far as I know).

    The worst one I had occurred after a target practicing trip out to the lake bed with a friend and my wife. On our way back into town we stopped at a restaurant for food (this was around 2 am) and I still had my handgun on my hip, so I just left it on and we went in to eat. About halfway through our meal, we were interrupted by about four police officers who led us outside and asked us several questions, checked out my gun, and checked out the other firearms in my car (I gave them permission to; they were all legally registered, etc., I had nothing to hide). Anyways, it turned into a long lecture about how OC is a remnant of a bygone era that shouldn't apply anymore (apparently this LEO was quite opposed to armed citizens) and how they HAVE to respond when someone calls with a "he's got a gun" complaint. Apparently, another patron at the restaurant had called us in. After everything checked out, they sent us back in to finish our (now cold) meals.

    Another instance occurred in a shopping mall. I hadn't been in the first store for five minutes when I noticed about five security guards at the entrance to the store I was in. One of them approached me and asked if I was LE. I replied no, and he informed me that only LE is allowed to carry firearms in the mall. I didn't feel like arguing, so I obliged and returned the firearm to my car, but I don't see how that is possible. There is no signage to that effect anywhere outside or inside the mall.

    This last one was more funny than anything else. I was with a friend and we were both OC'ing, and we went into a small gun store to look at some grips for his gun. The guy behind the counter (who was carrying, BTW) took one look at us and said, almost apprehensively, "Are you guys armed?" When we responded in the affirmative, he informed us that we were not allowed to carry in his store and we would have to leave. We obliged, and had a good laugh in the car on the way to the next gun store.

    I guess my point is, I've OC'd a few times without any problems, but I seem to run into paranoid people who are afraid the gun is going to jump out of my holster and start shooting people. The cop in the first story made a point of the fact that I shouldn't OC because it scares people. How should I respond to this kind of stuff? If I'm not breaking any laws, are the police obligated to harass me and run a check every time someone gets spooked?
    in my state nc. oc is allowed in a bank. lol. if i tired it, how many red buttins would be tripped?

    lol.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Even though it is my right to do so, instances like that are why I choose to conceal my firearm. I have yet to hear of the police being called on a citizen carrying a well-concealed (meaning no printing and otherwise totally undetectable) handgun and being harassed. Furthermore, I prefer for people not to know that I'm armed anyway, for the same reason I prefer for people not to know how much money I'm carrying, or whether or not I have a cell phone (which I always keep on vibrate). To me, it's no one's business.
    True, it is easier to carry concealed if you are legally permitted to do so.

    But it is my preference to let people know that it is legal, and that "man with gun" does not mean violence / they are about to be shot. Too many negative stories in the news about idiots with guns shooting up the place.

    I'd rather let everyone know that I'm safe with it, and by proxy, they are too. That, and with the constant erosion of our rights by an ever increasing "Big Brother" type government, I like to use and enforce my rights as best I can.

    But everyone has to make the choice on whether or not to OC or CC. Personal preference. I'm just glad to know there are many people out there who carry and are responsible.

  10. #9
    “You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers, or if you hassle me man.”

    It may sound crass, but grow a pair. The officers did not have any reasonable suspicion that you were involved in a crime, so to detain you would be illegal. Since you seemed to volunteer to this encounter, you really have nothing to complain about. You allowed everything that happened to happen. If you file a grievance, the officer will say exactly that.

    When you are approached, immediately ask, “Are you detaining me?” If the officer is not detaining you, wish him a nice day and go about your business. DO NOT engage him or her in a conversation. DO NOT allow him or her to search you or your property. If they respond that they are detaining you, immediately ask, “For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?” These are important legal questions! If carrying a pistol is legal where you live, and you are not otherwise breaking the law, the police cannot legally seize you merely for appearing odd.

    Know your rights! Do not allow yourself to be walked on for exercising your rights.

    I know because I was there and did pretty much the same as you did. Now I know better.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    It may sound crass, but grow a pair. The officers did not have any reasonable suspicion that you were involved in a crime, so to detain you would be illegal. Since you seemed to volunteer to this encounter, you really have nothing to complain about. You allowed everything that happened to happen. If you file a grievance, the officer will say exactly that.
    I'm not disagreeing with you; I never should have volunteered to let them search my car. However, when they approached me while I was still in the restaurant and demanded I step outside with them, what would be the correct course of action?

    That's my biggest question here, and one yet to be truly answered. Do I step outside with them and then calmly explain that since I didn't break any laws and they weren't detaining me for the commission of a crime, I'd like to resume my meal? Or do I do that in the restaurant when they are in defensive mode, probably expecting me to start a shootout in a restaurant at 2am because that's obviously why I'm carrying in the first place?

    This point begs another question as well, one I brought up earlier. Are the police obligated to respond to every "man with gun" call, even if they have no reason to believe that any crime is being committed? If so, are they required (or even allowed) to drag me from my meal and interrogate/lecture me? Or are my rights already being violated the moment they act upon the assumption that "gun = bad guy"?

    The way this anti-gun cop explained things to me, he's just gonna harass me every time I OC and he gets called because even though it's legal, well, "you still shouldn't do it." I told him I'd stop carrying when he can personally guarantee my safety 24/7.

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