Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police - Page 15
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Thread: Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

  1. Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    I am new to this forum business, so you will have to excuse the stupid question, but what does it mean when you say "troll"?
    A troll is anyone who types something to specifically provoke some sort of emotional or irritable response from other posters on message boards and chat rooms for their own self-amusement. Like if I went into the Concealed Carry sub-forum and make a thread about why "open carry is SOOO much better," that might provoke some people.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    Yeah, and those muzzle loaded pistols were HEAVY for a 16 year old!
    Hey!! I didn't get my muzzle load rifle until I was 50 and my pistol loads at the cylinder!! I'm not that old. We already had revolvers!
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
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    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  4. #143
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
    A troll is anyone who types something to specifically provoke some sort of emotional or irritable response from other posters on message boards and chat rooms for their own self-amusement. Like if I went into the Concealed Carry sub-forum and make a thread about why "open carry is SOOO much better," that might provoke some people.
    Thanks.

  5. #144
    As a guy retired after 20+ years in LE, I have a question for those posters who justify the officers' actions on the basis of "they didn't know if he was carrying legally or not and had to check"...

    Can I assume you also have no problem with police stopping you when you have committed no violation to make sure you have a driver's license?

    Police have no "right" to stop and detain without reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime...and, in a place where OC is legal, the mere act of carrying a sidearm does not reach that standard any more than driving a car does. (By the way...for the person who defined "unloaded" in the Peoples' Republic of California as not having any ammo on your person, that is incorrect...you can even be carrying a full magazine...it just cannot be inserted in the weapon)

    "GATTOP", or "Going Armed to The Terror..." also requires some purposeful act that would cause fear in the mind of a reasonable person...and courts have consistently found that the mere act of carrying a holstered firearm doesn't meet that standard.

    It always amazes me on gun forums and 2A forums that there is always a group of "Second Amendment Supporters" who are convinced that their way is the only way and anyone carrying differently should expect to have their rights trampled...don't you people even see the hypocrisy?

    I have carried for just over 35 years now (not counting military time) and the only time I "OC" is when circumstances make it more uncomfortable wear a cover garment than to deal with the reactions of those who are surprised to see a gun. My choice is mostly because I have fought all the battles that I want to fight in my lifetime...but I have the utmost respect for those who do OC and are willing to suffer (and document) the hassles.


  6. #145
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    This video was posted before ..... with the same results.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    LOL you must have not read the last two pages of posts. You can not be stopped for open carrying alone. They can respond to a call of a person with a gun. Come up and ask you what your doing. You have every right not to say anything. Open carrying alone is not reasonable suspicion of wrong doing to justify a stop. Case after case after case has shown this. Do cops still do it? Yes they do. Are they with in the law when doing so? NO they are not. File a suit on the town then file on on the department then file on on the officer him/her self. As for not knowing the laws that's a load of crap. Most departments carry the state Criminal code in the patrol car. I know i have My state Criminal code saved to my computer any and everything i can be arrested for is in it. I want to know why I'm being arrested ( If and when the time comes Never been arrested in my whole life and don't plan on starting now). But some times cops don't follow the full letter of the law. This is my way of calling what they are saying BS and knowing that I'm right. I would hope that all of you would have a copy of your states criminal code.

    I agree 100% I follow the 'Law'. If the police choose to ignore their responsibility for knowing the law i'll be more than happy to prove it in court.

  8. #147
    handgonnetoter Guest
    That is why I prefer to CC, I don't attract attention that way from ANYONE. To each his/her own.

  9. #148
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    OC or CC just give me the right to choose. South Carolina is only CC except to and from a range and or fishing and hunting. Which in MHO is BS to the nth degree. IF I qual to CC, then I should be qual'd to OC. I'll take the consequences for my actions, I always have! Just give me my dam freedom as enumerated in the Constitution / Bill of Rights!

    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  10. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD-Fender View Post
    Hmmm... Let's see:

    1. Armed man is walking down the street doing nothing illegal whatsoever, in complete compliance with the law.

    2. Paranoid, prejudiced "citizen" calls police about a suspicious armed man but with no articulable suspicion of any crime being committed.

    3. Police stop the law-abiding armed man, put him on the ground, detain him, disarm him, etc.

    I guess I don't see what the debate is. Consider this slight change in the story:

    1. Black man is walking down the street doing nothing illegal whatsoever, in complete compliance with the law.

    2. Paranoid, prejudiced "citizen" calls police about a suspicious black man but with no articulable suspicion of any crime being committed.

    3. Police stop the law-abiding black man, put him on the ground, detain him, disarm him, etc.

    Wow--seems a little different now, doesn't it...

    Why is detaining a law-abiding citizen because s/he is exercising his/her constitutionally-protected RKBA any more okay than detaining a law-abiding black man simply for walking down the street? Because of some other "citizen's" prejudicial "fear" or "suspicion"?

    Whether the OP was seeking the confrontation or not is completely beside the point--so were the marchers in Selma. So were the black people who sat down at the dime-store lunch counters in the South. So was Rosa Parks. And you know what people said about them? "They're just seeking a confrontation." "They just pushing buttons to make trouble." "They're causing the problems themselves." "They're just uppity."

    Well, maybe it's about time a few more of us who believe in the RKBA and the protections of the 2A get a little "uppity" too!

    Probably the most articulate and relevant post of the entire thread. Well done. This post REALLY opened my eyes. Thanks...
    "I got you in a Stranglehold, baby. And then I crushed your face" -Ted Nugent

  11. #150
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by kbv View Post
    This may not make me popular, but of course the officers were right. To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.

    There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from. If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave. As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation. A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire. When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.

    Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it. If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof. screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.

    KBV

    Man. I am SO HAPPY I live a VERY BORING, PLAIN life...
    "I got you in a Stranglehold, baby. And then I crushed your face" -Ted Nugent

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