Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police - Page 16
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Thread: Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

  1. I live in one of the 90+ cities in St. Louis County, Missouri. The City of STL is not included in the county. The laws for Open Carry are different in each of the cities; about half permit it.

    I've been CC'ing for a couple years now, and just recently discovered that my city of residence is one of those which permits OC. It never occurred to me to check before noiw.

    I won't OC here for a number of reasons.

    1. I've lived here for twenty-plus years and I know how people would react if they saw "a man with a gun" walking down the street or into one of the stores here. I have no intention of disturbing their lives just to prove a point or declare my lawful rights, when I can just as easily carry my PF-9 or Glock 26 in an IWB under an untucked shirt tail or t-shirt. I'll still be protecting myself and they'll never know. In fact, I performed a wedding this afternoon. None of the assembled multitude had any idea their Reverend was "packing" an evil black gun chock full of 9mm yumminess.

    2. I see no reason to attract the attention of the local police, most of whom do not know that this city even allows OC. My experience is that most local LEO's know just enough of their municipality's laws to effectively control traffic, stop drunk drivers and call in for assistance if the situation gets out of hand. No offense intended, but most local cops are not lawyers nor do they have a book of local laws easily at hand. They just try to contain and control any given out-of-hand sitiuation.

    3. I've always believed that the most visible threats will be the first threats minimized by bad guys. I learned that in the Army and decided I never wanted to be the guy carrying the M79. If I'm in a bank or a retail outlet suddenly invaded by gun-wielding thugs, they'll be looking for anyone who might pose a threat to their plan. They see a holster and a handgun on my hip, I'm a target. If I can keep my CC secret, I might have a chance to survive if I have to shoot to stop a threat to my life.

    So, please, folks, drop the bravado, put your cell phone and Flip cams back into your pocket and quit antagonizing the LEO's who are really working on an impossible task that may become, in the months ahead, even more impossible: keeping the peace. Understand that the cops are as scared as you are of facing off with some nut with a gun.

    2A is an important issue, but swaggering around with an AK47 "pistol" in a jerry-rigged holster or sling is really pretty stupid. Buy yourself an IWB holster, get a CC license, take some classes and relax.

  2.   
  3. Blah, blah, blah. Virtues of open carry vs. why open carry is stupid. I get it.

    The point is that the OP was brought to the ground despite him practicing a legal right.

    /thread
    REPEAL THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL NATIONAL FIREARMS AND GUN CONTROL ACTS

  4. #153
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,429
    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriShooter View Post
    I live in one of the 90+ cities in St. Louis County, Missouri. The City of STL is not included in the county. The laws for Open Carry are different in each of the cities; about half permit it.

    I've been CC'ing for a couple years now, and just recently discovered that my city of residence is one of those which permits OC. It never occurred to me to check before noiw.

    I won't OC here for a number of reasons.

    1. I've lived here for twenty-plus years and I know how people would react if they saw "a man with a gun" walking down the street or into one of the stores here. I have no intention of disturbing their lives just to prove a point or declare my lawful rights, when I can just as easily carry my PF-9 or Glock 26 in an IWB under an untucked shirt tail or t-shirt. I'll still be protecting myself and they'll never know. In fact, I performed a wedding this afternoon. None of the assembled multitude had any idea their Reverend was "packing" an evil black gun chock full of 9mm yumminess.

    2. I see no reason to attract the attention of the local police, most of whom do not know that this city even allows OC. My experience is that most local LEO's know just enough of their municipality's laws to effectively control traffic, stop drunk drivers and call in for assistance if the situation gets out of hand. No offense intended, but most local cops are not lawyers nor do they have a book of local laws easily at hand. They just try to contain and control any given out-of-hand sitiuation.

    3. I've always believed that the most visible threats will be the first threats minimized by bad guys. I learned that in the Army and decided I never wanted to be the guy carrying the M79. If I'm in a bank or a retail outlet suddenly invaded by gun-wielding thugs, they'll be looking for anyone who might pose a threat to their plan. They see a holster and a handgun on my hip, I'm a target. If I can keep my CC secret, I might have a chance to survive if I have to shoot to stop a threat to my life.

    So, please, folks, drop the bravado, put your cell phone and Flip cams back into your pocket and quit antagonizing the LEO's who are really working on an impossible task that may become, in the months ahead, even more impossible: keeping the peace. Understand that the cops are as scared as you are of facing off with some nut with a gun.

    2A is an important issue, but swaggering around with an AK47 "pistol" in a jerry-rigged holster or sling is really pretty stupid. Buy yourself an IWB holster, get a CC license, take some classes and relax.
    +1 well put. thank you

  5. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    733

    Talking Sorry, I will exercise my rights as they are written.

    Many keep stating that they will not open carry for a myriad of reasons; that is their right. However, their very next statements tend to be reasons why everyone else should voluntarily abdicate their rights, again for a myriad of reasons.

    I, for one, believe that we have abdicated far too many of the rights that were reserved us by our founders, and I say NOT ONE MORE. Rather than hide my legally carried firearm because it might offend the sensibilities of some uninformed citizen or overzealous law enforcement officer, I say let them get a good look. Let them see it every day, a hundred times a day, until they are inured to the sight. Let openly carried firearms become as commonly as worn as shoes or jackets. If an LEO is ignorant of the law, that is THEIR problem. Do not infringe upon my rights in order that they may continue an inadequate training program for their officers.

    Moreover, let small video cameras become as numerous as the stars in the sky. Let every private citizen on public property be free to film what and when they like. There is NO better way to ensure the professionalism of the "public servants" than to let them know that they are on record. I do NOT believe that the government has the same right, and should, therefore, be tightly monitored regarding who, what, and where they can record private citizens. The state is here to serve the people, not the other way around.

    Incidentally, those of you who, like MissouriShooter above, believe that it is the job of LEO to "keep the peace", please do a little research. They job of Law Enforcement in this country is to investigate crimes and apprehend criminals. NOWHERE is it written that they are responsible for ANYONE'S protection:

    Police Have No Duty to Protect Individuals

    As long as someone is exercising their rights legally, you won't hear me complain.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  6. #155
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    While I am licensed to carry concealed in Texas and a buch of other states thank God, my personal opinion is you should be able to open carry if you wish, some of the open carry laws are very stupid ie: California, why carry an unloaded gun on you hip, while I am quite skilled in handgun use having the clips on the other side of the belt, you might as well carry a club (most likely cannot do this in CA). My suggestion is for all the good honest folks to get togeather and QUIT spending your money and time in any state that does not allow you to protect yourself, I re-scheduled my vacation from CA to AZ for just this reason, CA does not want my money, final statement while I think you should be able to carry in the open, if you are shot dead by a misinformed LO, you have not won the argument.

    Push for open carry and legal carry Nationwide.
    Last edited by Nightmare45; 08-04-2010 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Addition

  7. I have no idea what the OP's original intent was in recording video of this encounter with law enforcement. None of us do. He is the only one who knows whether or not he was trying to provoke a response. We also don't know if there were individuals in the neighborhood who had called the police to report that they had seen someone with a gun. There is a lot we don't know about the situation.

    I'm interested in another line of discussion around open carry - safety. For those who open carry in densely populated or high-crime areas, what precautions have you taken to ensure your own safety and that of others? Do you carry in a Level 2 or Level 3 holster to aid in retention? Have you sought out training for weapon retention? Do you know what to do if someone grabs at or removes your weapon from its holster?

    I went through some training in the Army where we learned and practiced techniques for disarming people. It's not that difficult to do if you know what you're doing. How do you prepare for that possibility?

    I regularly open carry on my farm but am not sure I would feel comfortable doing so in a densely populated area where I have very little personal space.

  8. #157
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    While I am licensed to carry concealed in Texas and a buch of other states thank God, my personal opinion is you should be able to open carry if you wish, some of the open carry laws are very stupid ie: California, why carry an unloaded gun on you hip, while I am quite skilled in handgun use having the clips on the other side of the belt, you might as well carry a club (most likely cannot do this in CA). My suggestion is for all the good honest folks to get togeather and QUIT spending your money and time in any state that does not allow you to protect yourself, I re-scheduled my vacation from CA to AZ for just this reason, CA does not want my money, final statement while I think you should be able to carry in the open, if you are shot dead by a misinformed LO, you have not won the argument.

    Push for open carry and legal carry Nationwide.
    FYI
    The detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip; such usage is frowned upon by many authorities on firearms
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_(firearms)
    You carry how ever you want. I will carry what ever way I want.
    I happen to prefer California over Arizona.
    I never go on vacation so I can walk around with a pistol on my waist that yells, "look at me". I could continue, but, why bother? There are those who do, and those who don't.
    Enough said.

  9. #158
    Enough said? From you?

  10. #159
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    The iceman failed to understand what I said, I personally carry concealed, but respect the right to carry in the open, I am rather old and really don't care weather you call it a clip or magazine, my choice of words, I am well aware of the requirement to be mindful of what folks think, If you like the restrictions imposed on you by the state of CA then enjoy them, I respect the law and when I have travel I inform myself the the requirements, I will however no longer spend my money in any state where I cannot defend myself by whatever means, the criminal does not give a damn about the law, hence the word criminal or illegal, call the cops in CA sit and wait for the guy with the chalk to show up and explain to your family and kids where the cops were, the police in every state in the union are not sworn to protect the individual. God Bless you and spend your money where you wish. Peace and Love.
    Last edited by Nightmare45; 08-04-2010 at 05:28 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #160
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Central N.Car.
    Posts
    534
    Am on the East coast but I have spent my last penny in kalifornicate. Their condemnation of Arizona's laws are more than enough to keep me from supporting them with one cent. Some do not seem to care about things like that.

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