Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police - Page 8
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Thread: Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    733

    Unhappy I pity the public that you served....

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    As a retired police officer and a private citizen I see what you are trying to do. You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not. They are justified in contacting a man carrying a gun in public. They are even justified in taking you down at gun point. As the oficers said, they were called, they dont know who you are, and they need to investigate and detain you until they can determine what is going on. In some states open carry is only legal if the firearm is unloaded. In that situation the police can stop you in order to determine if the firearm is in fact unloaded. So either get used to being stopped at gun point or carry concealed. You made your point but you could have also been killed.
    As a former police officer who quit after three years of watching the constitutional rights of my fellow citizens being trampled upon as if old King George were still in authority, I can comfortably say that you are absolutely wrong. There is absolutely no reason that this individual should have been "taken down" for any reason. The para militarization of our modern police force is responsible for this kind of attitude, and the courts have been remiss in not correcting it long ago.

    Whether it be abuse of the "Terry" stop authority, or abuse of the "No Knock" warrant, our modern police forces are beginning to resemble the police of a third world banana republic. This kind of attitude is the reason why Jefferson promoted the right to keep and bear arms; to protect (themselves) against tyranny in government.

    I've asked it before, and I will ask it again: What happened to the civil in civil service?

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not.


    No, sir. Like it or not, it is YOU and your fellow officers who are going to have to understand that YOU are going to be confronted by citizens exercising their constitutional right, under both the federal AND state law, to openly carry a firearm. You need to learn that, if it is good enough for the police, it should be good enough for the people. Your REAL authority is derived from the badge; do you really think that you should have a monopoly on self protection? When the police can GUARANTEE the safety of the public, be they male, female, black white, or other, then I will hear your complaint with a little compassion. I still won't agree, but at least you will have some ground on which to argue.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    553
    .....my turn........If you watch any of the video's from our guy here in NH, Mr. Ridley, He exercises His/Our Rights by OCing here in NH. You'll see that no officer's take his firearm or handcuffs him. When asked for ID, He simply states that NH is an OC state (which They know anyway) and that OCing does not require proof of Permit/ID. He speaks to the officer's with respect, and from what I see causes no illegal disturbances in any of his video's. He informs the officer's that They are being video taped and/or recorded. The police are just responding to a call made which They have too investigate. They ask alot of questions, but he never shows proof of ID.
    If some of you never heard of him, check it out. He is on youtube. Also has his own website. I am not advertising any of his so called stop's with law enforcement or anything else. Just something to watch how he exercises His/Our Rights. He is definately a good talker.....
    I do not know the links but if you punch in one of the following, I'm sure you'll find some.
    *Ridley Report
    *Manchester NH
    The OP in My opinion seems like he was doing kind of the same thing this Ridley guy does, only in this case the officers put him down on the ground, take his weapon and handcuff him....which you do not see in the video.
    (All the above are MY opinions/suggestions ONLY....AND, I like to bust ball's, it's called having a sense of humor. In other words, no intent to offend anyone, so get over it)

  4. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas
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    44
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    As a retired police officer and a private citizen I see what you are trying to do. You just need to understand that even though it may be legal to openly carry your gun, you run the risk of being confronted by the police. Like it or not. They are justified in contacting a man carrying a gun in public. They are even justified in taking you down at gun point.
    Huh?! Just how in the world are they "justified in taking you down at gun point"?! It's called a constitutional right, for God's sake. And you assert that they are "justified" in threatening deadly force against you because you exercise that right?! Good Lord. We don't quite live in that kind of police state (at least not yet).

    That is as completly incorrect a statement as I have yet seen on this forum. They are not in any way "justified in taking you down at gun point" if you are not doing anything illegal or that creates reasonable suspicion of illegality--an simply exercising your natural, God-given RKBA is not such a thing.

    This is precisely the mentality that has permitted us to slide to this place in history where we so readily allow our rights to be trampled--we just assume that it's "justified" when it absolutely, unequivocally is not!


    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    As the oficers said, they were called, they dont know who you are, and they need to investigate and detain you until they can determine what is going on.
    On what basis? Because some lilly-livered sheep saw a law-abiding citizen walking down the street exercising his rights? Why to "they need to investigate and detain" anybody? There's been no crime committed, there isn't even a suggestion that any crime has been committed or is about to be committed. Apply your logic to a guy walking down the street exercising his 1st Amendment rights; would you say the same thing? Of course not! So why, for Pete's sake, would you say it about somebody exercising his 2nd Amendment right???

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    In some states open carry is only legal if the firearm is unloaded. In that situation the police can stop you in order to determine if the firearm is in fact unloaded.
    Which is both blatently unconstitutional and completely irrelevant to this case, which occurred in a jurisdiction where open carry of a fully-loaded firearm is not even purported to be illegal, but is clearly lawful.

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    So either get used to being stopped at gun point or carry concealed. You made your point but you could have also been killed.
    Yet another person who apparently believe that we should be sheep and just accept the state's trampling on our constitutional right and stop exercising it because the state will threaten us if we do.

    Good Lord help us...

  5. Hello all,
    First post on this forum, just found it today.

    I will start by saying I live in AZ and OC almost everywhere i go. I dont have a CCW yet, but plan on obtaining one soon. I OC every day whether it be a walk down to the gas station or a trip to a friend's house. The G27 goes everywhere with me. It's in my car at work with me right now.

    I have somewhat mixed feelings about this whole situation.

    I do not agree with what this guy did. I in no way go around trying to provoke a response from anyone, LEO or citizen. In one case i went to the local sub shop and walked in the door at the same time as 3 Mesa PD officers. They didnt even give me a second glance.

    I do believe that in a OC state, the LEO's know the law enough to know that someone walking with a holstered gun on their hip, not provoking anybody does not need to be dealt with in the manner they did in this video. This guy did something to make the officer react the way he did. Plainly walking down the street does not constitute a "face-down, on the ground" response.

    Still however, the police took it a little too far to take him down at gunpoint, especially if he had not even gestured towards reaching for his gun. In which case, he probably would never have had the chance to post the video himself.

    I have ridden my bike down the sidewalk at night without lights, 27 on my hip road-side. Passed a cop patroling the neighborhood and I could have been stopped just for not having lights on my bike. I'm sure he saw the gun on my hip, but didnt bother me a bit.

    Walking around recording your "leisurley stroll" with your gun is just asking for trouble.

    I cant really say i can take either side in this as it seems to me both were wrong.

    But that's just what i feel. Love the site, it's been really helpful over the past few hours of boredom at work.

  6. QUOTE=Boomboy007;87292]

    No, sir. Like it or not, it is YOU and your fellow officers who are going to have to understand that YOU are going to be confronted by citizens exercising their constitutional right, under both the federal AND state law, to openly carry a firearm. You need to learn that, if it is good enough for the police, it should be good enough for the people. Your REAL authority is derived from the badge; do you really think that you should have a monopoly on self protection? When the police can GUARANTEE the safety of the public, be they male, female, black white, or other, then I will hear your complaint with a little compassion. I still won't agree, but at least you will have some ground on which to argue.[/QUOTE]

    I do fully agree with this statement...

  7. #76
    The "no-carry in my house" rule went into effect after some fool at a poker party pulled out his piece and passed it around the table, cocked and locked. At least two other players thought it was funny to point the piece at others; I don't. A lot of people carry in my home, but not unless I say so. If you can't live with that, you don't belong here anyway. Call it respect. On being invited into a person's home I have not been to before, I always inform them I am packing, and if they ask, I will either put the piece in my car, or leave.

    As for the crack about me in Nazi Germany, I'd be likely to pound you if you said that to my face (I say "likely"; take that any way you like). I write letters to congress, and can quote AND define the 2nd Amendment off the top of my head. Even the big words, like "well-regulated", "necessary", and "infringed". And every one of my "stories" applies here, because they point up the trend of people to just sit back and watch, convinced it can't happen to them. Your opinion of me is not as important as the mosquito bite I didn't get last night, but I take humbrage at having my thoughts, beliefs, and actions, particularly the message "don't just sit there, do something" diluted with personal attacks on my character and fitness to be a citizen of this great nation. If you want to make your point, send it to Congress (I have). Don't widen the gap between us further because you don't like the way I phrased something. We need unity, not bickering and back-biting amongst ourselves.

    I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong, even called on to answer to it, but I draw the line at mud-slinging. Of course, I realize not everyone who posts here is dedicated to keeping our 2A Rights intact; smoke and mirrors can be very effective. Keep your powder dry.

    KBV

  8. #77
    I'd be likely to pound you if you said that to my face
    How old are you twelve? If you are carrying around that much anger you should not be carrying a firearm. You seem to be the kind of nut job we read about in the news who gets angry and starts shooting. If you cant even handle feedback on a public forum HANG UP THE GUNS.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  9. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Belleville, MI & Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    87
    The last couple of questions by the police bother me .... where are you going, do you need a gun to go for a walk, where are you coming from .... all those are totally none of the laws business. Since when do we have to report to the police where and why we are coming or going from anywhere? It happened to me (not the open carry part) but during a traffic stop, I was asked questions like that. The cop had a huge attitude problem when I asked him who needs to know WHERE I was coming from. It's a good thing I didn't answer, I was coming from home - to go eat - and just so happens a gas station I passed on the way into town (only a half mile from my house) was ROBBED at gunpoint, my truck matched the description of the suspect vehicle, a BLACK FORD F-150 4X4 PICKUP TRUCK, ONE WHITE MALE ---- I had my .45 and CCW ..... which was presented to him and the other 5 police officers that surrounded me. So YOU tell me about NOT saying anything except - what am I being detained for, and why did you stop me?

  10. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by kbv View Post
    This may not make me popular, but of course the officers were right. To my knowkedge, the NRA only recognizes one circumstance where you surrender your piece, no questions, and that is at the request of a duly-appointed Law Enforcement Officer. Every NRA class I have taken has stressed this; black, white, myob, taking a stroll, doesn't matter: if an LE requests you surrender your weapon, do as directed. Be polite, and save the Constitutional rants for the OP ED page.

    There are also certain areas illegal to carry in: Indian Reservations, Forestry Land, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol, and any place else you are requested to remove it from. If you bring a gun ion my house, you will be asked to remove it from the premises or place it in my custody while you are here. I and I alone carry a pistol in my home, and it is up to my discretion whether to enforce that or not. However, if I do, comply or leave. As far as I am concerned, refusing to disarm in my home or vehicle places me in a life-and-death situation. A twelve-year=old "Crip" wannabe tried to "make his bones (kill someone)" on me in my house one time during a neighborhood gettogether. Someone else saw him about to stab me, and dragged him away. The only way I even learned of it was that I found the knife they took from him, and, not recognizing it, asked questions until I finally got the whole story. "Don't tell Kevin" was pretty much the rule of thumb in situations like that, as most people mistook me for a "shoot first, ask questions later" type. The truth is, I have carried a pistol since age 16 (I'm 54 now) almost all the time, and, though I have had to pull it on several occassions, I have yet to find it necessary to fire. When dealing with LE, my SOP is to tell them I am carrying and ask if they would prefer to hold it during our encounter. Generaslly, they take it, run the numbers and me, and return it, often in the same Condition One (loaded, cocked, and locked) as I surrendered it in.

    Word travels like lightening in the LE field, and more often than not, the officer tells me just to keep it holstered for the time being. Granted, one group of LEOs confiscated my .40 Taurus; I had to go to court to get it back, and when I did, they had broken the firing pin. But there were six of them and one of me, and the law was on their side (sic). Perhaps things did not go as they should have that day, but I am alive and well with my gun rights intact; that says something to me about the wisdom of politely complying. I know for a fact these officers, with whom I had had repeated encounteres with, akin to a "turf war", had no reservations about blowing me away. They tried everything short of planting evidence to get me on a felony charge, and when it became evident that was not going to happen, they tried to provoke me into a lopsided gun battle. I spent a night in jail on some trumped-up charge, which was dismissed immediately next morning, and am still around to tell of it. If a cop requests you to surrender your firearm, shut up and follow directions. My copy of the Constitution is not bullet-proof. screrw your rights; stay alive! Thank you.

    KBV
    Try and dig down real deep and find your back bone and maybe your balls. Stand up for your self for gods sake man. No one else will if your not even willing to stand up for your self as a human never mind your rights given to you by the founding fathers. Where the hell do you live? Sounds like you live on a movie set for the sequel to "Training Day". Film them and get it on tape and get the thugs with badges off the streets. Call the FBI and file a report with them about the police department.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  11. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by sambo42xa View Post
    .....my turn........If you watch any of the video's from our guy here in NH, Mr. Ridley, He exercises His/Our Rights by OCing here in NH. You'll see that no officer's take his firearm or handcuffs him. When asked for ID, He simply states that NH is an OC state (which They know anyway) and that OCing does not require proof of Permit/ID. He speaks to the officer's with respect, and from what I see causes no illegal disturbances in any of his video's. He informs the officer's that They are being video taped and/or recorded. The police are just responding to a call made which They have too investigate. They ask alot of questions, but he never shows proof of ID.
    If some of you never heard of him, check it out. He is on youtube. Also has his own website. I am not advertising any of his so called stop's with law enforcement or anything else. Just something to watch how he exercises His/Our Rights. He is definately a good talker.....
    I do not know the links but if you punch in one of the following, I'm sure you'll find some.
    *Ridley Report
    *Manchester NH
    The OP in My opinion seems like he was doing kind of the same thing this Ridley guy does, only in this case the officers put him down on the ground, take his weapon and handcuff him....which you do not see in the video.
    YouTube - Open Carry Legal in New Hampshire?


    Also check this video out i think it was posted on here already at some point.


    YouTube - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

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