Well-regulated militia
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Thread: Well-regulated militia

  1. #1

    Well-regulated militia

    I was thinking (scary idea!) that if a group of shooting enthusiasts were to find a suitable site for target parctice (50-100 M into a huge, dense hillside or some other gepgraphical formation that would stop bullets without danger or ricoche, get permission from the land owner to use it, and meet there regularly ( weekly, monthly, whatever) with the policy that you are a member if you say you are, it could be called a militia, especially if the occassional expert were to drop in and give a talk or supervise an excercise.

    The only reason needed to justify something like this would be to protect the constitution; yeah, yeah, we've all heard that one. Here's the difference: we would allow local LEOs to watch, even participate, but we would NOT be affilliated with Law Enforcement in any sense. Available in an emergency? Negotiable.

    These would be independant social organizations of like-minded people getting together to ensure the first half of the 2nd Amendment gets its equal respect. We could have a simple website tying us together throughout the country, and stay out of the political debate; just adhere precisely to the tenets of the 2nd Ammendment. It never says WHO is to regulate the well-armed militia, but communication and traing sound well-regulated enough to me, as long as we didn't turn into vigilantes. "The rightr of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." is enough for me, but a "well-regulated militia" takes all the steam I can see out of their argument. You wouldn't even have to sign up; you are if you say you are. Any feedback?

  2.   
  3. #2
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    Sounds great to me, but the way the world is right now probably won't take kindly to it just like in the '90s. It is clear that the founding fathers didn't want a standing army, they wanted the people to be armed and ready to fight in case of war.

    Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson

    The way things are, the media may label your group as an extreme right-wing, racist, anti-government, militant, terrorist group or something. The word "militia" is scary to people nowadays. I would call it something like a gun club, or shooting practice.

    Militias in the '90s tried to reach out to the local community and LE, but in most cases they were just demonized and most of them went quiet. I still am yet to find an instance where LE requested the help of any militia.

    I am all in favor of groups of "civilians" practicing shooting, tactics, communication, etc. So I'm not saying not to go for it, I'm just saying tread carefully.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they don't have a real enemy, they'll invent one in order to mobilize us.

  4. If the gun grabbers won't honor the "right to keep and bare" section, why would they honor the "a well regulated militia" part?

  5. #4
    The thing to look at here is that you may be giving in to the idea that a militia is an organized group (i.e. the reserves or guard). This was not the case when our founding fathers wrote that. The thought then was that the militia consisted of "all able bodied men". We do not need to stray from the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is a right of the people.

  6. #5
    Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a social organization, like Knights of Columbus or the local country club, consisting of [I]citizens[I] sharing a common interest: firearm safety. No maneuvers, no LE, just a group that meets a couple times a month to discuss gun safety, laws, etc, and possibly do some shooting. Have a guset speaker from the NRA, LE, Handguns Inc. (defusing the "us against them" mindset), hopefully with the cooperstion of local LE. Already thought about possible ramifications; LE knowing who has what, that sort of thing, bu if you are a legitimate gun owner, they probably already know anyway.

    The goal is to provide an alternative view of the much-demonized "gun nut", dressed in camo, arguing the 2nd Ammendment with anyone who will listen, skulking around in search of someone to shoot and get away with it. The group I have in mind could sponsor public gun safety seminars, perhaps even working with the schools in some capacity. The major focus would be on gun safety and responsible use/ownership. No "tactical field training, public demonstrations, keep it as a-politcal as possible. Perhaps an occassional letter to the paper, carefully written so as not to alarm the dis-armers.

    If we are going to keep our guns legally, we dare not sit on our haunches and wait for someone else to win the battle. We need to show the avrage gun owner as they really are; the next-door-neighbor, football coach, accountant, EMT, doctor, and so on, not just the Freemen of Montana, Hinkleys and Chapmans, and gang-bangers. We need to take a firm stance against vigilanteism, armed citizens patrolling the neighborhoods, and so on. We have police, etc, for that.

    I have sworn to uphold the Constitution and protect our country from all enemies, outside or in. That doesn't mean I am going to, at any point, declare "open season" on criminals, corrupt politicians, et al. The rule "Never surrender your piece" has one exception: I will allow a duly-appointed law enforcement officer, on request, temporary control of my weapon, no sass, back-talk, or 2nd Amendment lectures. I do not care for all the laws on the books, and i know there are plenty of :bad cops"; however, when they put on their uniform, don their badge, and go into harm's way as a way of life, I have to respect not only their courage, but also their right to do their job with the least amount of danger possible.

    I have always been told, when asked to surrender my weapon, that it is for my own safety. I believe it, because if the roles were reversed, that would be my policy. who in their right mind would run a wants and warrants check on a person they know to be armed? If you come up clean, they have to give it back; if you are not comfortable in a situation, request a field supervisor be present. 99% of the police I have dealt with return respect with respect, attitude with attitude, and hostility with concern for their lives. They will not hesitate to use force to ensure their safety, which could very well jeapardize your own.

    I believe the thing we, as responsible gun owners, need to do is to "de-scarify" ourselves. Show the non- and anti-gunners that, as a group, we are not much different than they, other than we have made the decision to follow the Constitution. The only way to accomplish this is through education and example. If 'Jorac Obamden" get their way, the popint will be moot in under four years; not a lot of time to undo generations of horror stories, inflated statistics, and the general "loose cannon" stigma that goes with owning a handgun and being willing to use it.

    One last thing: ammo has gotten pretty scarce most places, and what good is a firearm without anything to fire from it? Write letters to Congress (be extremely careful how you word them), newspapers, etc, voicing your opinion on this matter. Word I've gotten is Obamden put a new policy into effect, forbidding the sale of used military brass to ammunition manufacturers. at this point, that is all I know, and I can't swear to it. Have been, and will continue to look for verification; have not found any yet. Something is going on, though. There are almost no bullets available online; temporarily out of stock, the say. And I can not find a box of primers anywhere. If there's nothing to shoot available, what good is a firearm? The all-out attack on the 2nd Amendment has begun; make no mistake. These people are doing their best to start a "revolution" that we cannot win; all they need do is stop the supply of oil. Stores will be empty within a week (ammo the first day), and how many of us have gardens or the skills necessary to survive without gas and electricity?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this rather long message. What you do next is up to you. I am keeping my own counsel on my plans.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbv View Post
    If we are going to keep our guns legally . . .
    And there you have the crux of it, exactly. You seem to maintain the expectation that this is an option. I do not. Personally, I think that going 'public' with your activities and resources is exactly the wrong way to go. This has become a Government that cannot be trusted, and more and more all the time, and it's foolish to believe otherwise. Think 1939 Germany. Restate your idea in that context, then tell me it's still a good idea.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  8. #7
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    Do not make the mistake of trusting this administration. They are not about to let the truth get in the way of their agenda. Just listen to the misinformation coming out of the town hall meetings on Obama Care.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

  9. #8
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    I agree, the government is untrustable. But I would like to add that it is not just THIS administration. Bush's agenda was the same as Obama's, as well as Clinton and Daddy Bush, etc. The policies never change, only the front men. Until we abolish rigged voting systems, and elect a President who stands for the People not just another NWO puppet, we will be in the same crap forever.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they don't have a real enemy, they'll invent one in order to mobilize us.

  10. #9
    And when they (whoever "they" are) kick our doors in some crystal-clear evening, demanding our guns with M-16s, AR-15s, tear gas, concussion grenades, and brute force, where will be then? I don't want to hear that is not an option, because that's what they did in Nazi Germany, the USSR, N. Korea, Viet Nam, Thailand, etc. You cannot own a "military" caliber weapon in Mexico (how many aren't?) or most South of the Border countries, but the streets are full of them.

    If the ENTIRE population is not for the 2nd Amendment, how much support can we expect from our neighbors? In this stupid country, "they" could probably go state to state confiscating weapons, and what could we do about it? Start shooting cops and National Guardspeople? If you have a CCW, "they" know you probably have a handgun. You will be first on the list, whether you OC or CC. and unless someone has figured out how to keep the lights and gas on during a "revolution", "they" are going to prevail.

    How many can afford to stockpile enough food and water to outlast the US Gov't? Where will you go? What will you do when "they" make posession of a handgun a "shoot-on-sight" offense? If memory serves, that's what happened in New Orleans, East LA, etc, though those were only in "extreme" situations. Was Vicki Weaver standing in her doorway holding her baby an "extreme" situation? It was to Ron Hariguchi, and Janet Reno backed him all the way."They" fried the Branch Davidians, men, women, and children; did anyone from the FBI, BATF, or any gov agency involved in that fiasco even get a slap on the wrist?

    Complete E-Mail Addresses for Congress/House, Senate, Governors & State Legislators
    http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
    Representative Offices - United States House of Representatives, 111th Congress, 1st Session
    congress.org/congressorg/home/

    Here are four websites claiming to list the email addresses of all the Senators, Congresspeople, even the White House. I just Googled "congressional contact list"; there are a lot more, including state legislatures, but I can't do all the work around here, lol. Get a complete list, put it in you contacts folder in either your email provider or MS Outlook (Sorry, I don't know about Mac and Linux), write a WELL-WORDED, NON-THREATENING letter stating your concerns and the reasons for them, and CC it to ALL of them. You only have to set up the contact list once, though, if I know the Gov, that'll take a lot longer than it should. Send a copy to the paper while you're at it. Rolling Stone, Time, Life, TV networks, whoever you can think of. Do NOT use the word "revolution" or any similar term; keep in mind that these people are among the biggest cowards in history. They pay thugs (FBI, BATF, DEA, State, County, and Local LEAs) very well to deal with any conceived threat the the security of the "nation" or its elected representatives. And, please, I am not saying all LEOs are thugs. but if the word comes down, they will all be there to knock (kick?) on your door.

    People are so wound up with the "War on Drugs", gang activity, and illegal aliens we often miss the bigger picture. can you say "Smoke and Mirrors"? magic works through distraction; so does the gov. Once "they" start kicking doors in, it will be too late; fight or flight will be the only options left. all of the "One World Government" plans (surely you've heard that term before) hinge on dis-arming the various populations, leaving guns and ammo solely in the hands of LE and the military.

    Right now, I'm paying $30+ for a box of .45 FMJs here in AZ. Haven't seen a primer for sale in so long I forget what they look like. Google it, don't just take my word for it. .22s are all but impossible to find; WalMart is rationing ammo, and it sells out in hours, when available at all. Gun dealers have told me Obama just stopped selling used military brass to the ammunition manufacturers; I can't swear to it, but it sounds logical. Billions needed in bail-out money for the scum who worked the system under Pres. Bush to deregulate the banking business and rape the world economy, and the gov puts a halt to one of it biggest money-making ventures? Steel production has shifted from the US overseas, and polymers (the plastic used to make Glocks, etc) are made from oil.

    Great Brittain and Australia, out of the blue, made firearm ownership of ANY kind illegal. Pistols, rifles, collector items, didn't matter. Did anyone else see the film of all those guns being destroyed? It took days using scoop shovels, car magnets, whatever, to destroy all those guns, but they're gone now. Those countries don't even HAVE significant gun crimes. I know there's a lot more going on, but I get depressed watching it. Half the cops in town are friends of mine; I'm supposed to open fire on them when (notice I did not say IF) the order comes down to go door-to-door collecting whatever guns are left after the "good citizens" have all turned theirs in? What, are we going to call one another to make a stand? Disappear into the desert at the first hint of confiscation? How many reading this can build a fire without matches or a lighter? Keep the bare necessities for survival (Buck knife, collapsable pliers tool, first aid kit, flash light w/extra batteries or self-powering, an extra can of gasoline, diesel, and water in your "emergency vehicle", rifle, shotgun, and pistol(s), etc) close at hand; even better, on your person?

    This is not bragging, but I wrote about exactly what is happening today in a news letter ("The Monster Watch News") I published in the mid-nineties. Crushing all cars over the age of OnStar, LoJack, et al, getting the ammo off the streets first, making a decent firearm so expensive most people could not afford one. hiding gun legislation in budgets and health-care bills, then pushing them through so fast most legislators never have time to read them, adding to the "you can no longer own a firearm" list of laws. Damn near got killed for it, too. Had to "lie low" for the past 10 or 12 years until things calmed down. i broke no laws, didn't even "force" my views on anyone, but I was red-flagged in the city I lived in (minimum four cars responding any time my name went over the wire, cops claiming "probable cause" to enter my house without a warrant (they "heard" what sounded like a fight; it was a TV show), the fBI threatening to arrest me for false reporting or something after my 13 yr-old daughter ran off with a carney to a diferent state (the other carneys found out where she lived, called us, and sent her home). The LE community did nothing except raise their terrorism tactics on me until I left town. My wife banged her chin and I got arrested for domestic Assault; the arresting officer brought a real-estate agent to the jail for me to list my house with. State's Attorney took the case all the way to jury trial, even after several judges recused themselves from the case. after hearing testimony from the arresting officer and my wife, plus reading a deposition from the ER dotor that the injury could NOT have been caused by a blow from a hand, the Judge sent the jury home and gave me a directed verdict of "Not Guilty with Prejudice", meaning the charge could not be brought up again. My cost? $3500 and over a month in jail, then the strictest bail conditions allowable.

    Through all of this, I somehow managed to keep my CCW! Cops would pull me over because my car was red, find a Condition One .45 on me and an SKS and pistol-grip Mossburg 12-Ga. in my trunk, and ask how someone like me could get a full-carry permit. Easy: I obey the law. I CC'd at the time; what good did that do me?

    The kid with the knife is just an example of how things were in my neighborhood at the time, and my testamonial that just because you are carrying a gun doesn't make you "safe". If my friend Ed, may he rest in piece, hadn't seen the kid lunging at me and stopped him, I would have been dead, lying there with my .44 Redhawk in its shoulder sling, my Norinco .45 1911A1 on my belt, and my Kel Tec P-11 tucked behind my belt. Not to mention my Buck Knife, and years of martial arts training. Don't forget about watching one another's backs.

    Next time I post. I'll print as well-worded letter to Congress voicing my opinion and explaining the 2nd Amendment word-by-word as I can, for anyone who wants to to copy and send to their representatives. One post I read suggested everyone send a copy of the 2nd Amendment the the entire Federal Government on July 4. In fact, if USA Carry will allow it, I will post my list of email addresses for the entire Federal Gov, in a format where you only have to send one letter; it will go to the entire list. Will that make it easier for anyone to voice their opinion where it might do some good? The individual states, who technically have no say in the matter, as it is covered in the Bill of Rights and therefore exclusive territory of the Federal Government, are up to you. Rather than support or bash me and my ravings, send an email to Congress; the whole damn bunch of them. What you think of me is so unimportant as to qualify as "Smoke and Mirrors". Even Jesus said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand. (sorry, I never can remember chapters and verses; maybe someone else would find that passage and post it correctly)".

    Also keep in mind that the Founding Fathers were fighting a government on the other side of an ocean at war with France, received bookoo help from the French in the form of munitions and supplies, and had a whole continent to disappear into. who's going to help us? Where can we disappear to? For some reason (satelites, aerial surveilance, snitches, and so on), I don't see large groups of us "dug in" in some remote area for an extended conflict. act now, while you can, even if you believe it's already too late. Pray for a miracle, and don't shoot anyone unless you absolutely have to. Thanks. Keep your powder dry.

    KBV

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    I agree, the government is untrustable. But I would like to add that it is not just THIS administration. Bush's agenda was the same as Obama's, as well as Clinton and Daddy Bush, etc. The policies never change, only the front men. Until we abolish rigged voting systems, and elect a President who stands for the People not just another NWO puppet, we will be in the same crap forever.
    Sadly you are right, our rights and freedoms are being steadily eroded.
    Obama and Clinton are just more direct (impatient) about it.

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