Firearms and vehicles
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Thread: Firearms and vehicles

  1. #1
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    Firearms and vehicles

    I've thoroughly read through Title 18, 6106. I'll post it here http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.009.000..HTM
    § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
    carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
    firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
    of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
    lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
    of the third degree.

    Ok, here is a question that was posed to me, and I really couldn't answer him with authority. Hopefully, someone here can. The question was, if one has a LTCF in PA and is in one's vehicle and feels like taking off one's firearm, what is the legal code in doing so? According to Title 18, 6106, it seems as if you can carry open in a vehicle with a LTCF or carry concealed anywhere with a LTCF except where normally prohibited. So again the question, can one have a LOADED handgun in the vehicle IF it is not on one's person? Please give sources for your answer. Thank you.
    Last edited by wolf_fire; 05-24-2013 at 02:33 AM. Reason: link wasn't working.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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  3. #2
    Does Pa law define concealed as "on the person" (I'm in Ks and don't know) since many states consider under a vehicle seat to be concealed

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwm1611 View Post
    Does Pa law define concealed as "on the person" (I'm in Ks and don't know) since many states consider under a vehicle seat to be concealed
    That's exactly what I'm trying to deduce. I can't seem to find it in the legal code.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  5. I've always understood that if it's in/on a vehicle it's carried and needs an LTCF. "Open or concealed"

  6. #5

    Firearms and vehicles

    Most laws define it based on loaded or unloaded. To have it locked up unloaded in a car separate from its ammunition does not require any license in most states. When loaded, most states require a license to carry it in a car. I dont believe you are breaking the law If you have a license to carry and decide that while in your car, you are going to remove it from your person and put it under the seat or in the glove box. I believe it's addressed in the "exceptions" sections 11 and 13 on the below site.

    http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6106/firearms-not-to-be-carried-without-a-license/

    Again, I don't think it matters as your legal and in /on your property which allows you the right to possess a loaded firearm if licensed. That being said, I would do it discreetly not to draw attention or brandishing charges. To be certain, call your state 's attorney general and ask.

  7. #6
    Pennsylvania has no concealed permit. It has a licence to carry firearms which allows you to conceal or print or partially conceal. To carry in a vehicle you need a LTCF and then you may conceal, partly conceal, carry owb lay it on the seat or hang it from your earrings. Pa has no brandishing law if somebody happens to see it and you are not threatening somebody with it.

    Codes only tell you what you can't do not what you can do.
    “If I only had three words of advice, they would be, Tell the Truth. If got three more words, I'd add, all the time.” ~ Randy Pausch

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroutStalker View Post
    Most laws define it based on loaded or unloaded. To have it locked up unloaded in a car separate from its ammunition does not require any license in most states. When loaded, most states require a license to carry it in a car. I dont believe you are breaking the law If you have a license to carry and decide that while in your car, you are going to remove it from your person and put it under the seat or in the glove box. I believe it's addressed in the "exceptions" sections 11 and 13 on the below site.

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

    Again, I don't think it matters as your legal and in /on your property which allows you the right to possess a loaded firearm if licensed. That being said, I would do it discreetly not to draw attention or brandishing charges. To be certain, call your state 's attorney general and ask.
    TroutStalker,

    Thank you for redirecting me to the exceptions clause. You are spot on. Exception 11 is exactly what my friend needed to read. I appreciate your help.

    wolf_fire
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. #8
    i had lengthy discussions on this subject with several leo's and the sherriffs office (local issue location)
    going by Pa laws, open carry is lawful without a ltc, but discouraged
    open carry does include when riding a motor cycle since the weapon is still visible, but in the confines of a vehicle it must be cased seperate from the ammunition and not within reach or "control" of the occupants as it is not readily visible

    this also includes long arms, which generally fall under the game commiission and must be unloaded and out of reach when being transported "unless the operator is in possession of a ltc"

    hope this helps
    "Gun Control"
    Starts with a good grip!

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldemagics View Post
    i had lengthy discussions on this subject with several leo's and the sherriffs office (local issue location)
    going by Pa laws, open carry [on foot] is lawful without a ltc, [correct] but discouraged

    [LOL... 'discouraged'? Discouraged in what way? By whom and who cares? For anyone in a position of authority to attempt to get you (or me) to avoid doing something that is legal commits the crime of Official Oppression. The US and PA Constitution both say bearing arms is our right, and the PA legislature says it is legal. I really don't care who doesn't like it.]


    open carry does include when riding a motor cycle since the weapon is still visible,

    [Incorrect. A Pa LTCF (or license or permit from *any* state) is required to carry a loaded firearm in ANY vehicle, or to carry it to anyplace other than the short list of exceptions such as, directly to the range and directly back home, a gunsmith or gun shop, etc. Open carry versus concealed carry and motorcyle versus automobile have nothing to do with it. Here is the legal definition for vehicle when the term is used outside the Motor Vehicle Code:
    "Vehicle." A conveyance in or on which persons or property may be carried.
    Please note that there is no exception for motorcycles, or "because it is visible".

    ...but in the confines of a vehicle it must be cased seperate from the ammunition and not within reach or "control" of the occupants as it is not readily visible [not if you have your PA LTCF or license or permit from any other state. What you are saying here only applies to unlicensed transport. Furthermore, there is no legal requirement that it be "not readily visible" or "not within reach or control of the occupants". The statue literally says "Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper" ...18 Pa C.S. 6106(b)(8)

    Link:
    http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=23

    this also includes long arms, which generally fall under the game commiission and must be unloaded and out of reach when being transported "unless the operator is in possession of a ltc" [Incorrect again. Even with a PA LTCF, long guns must be transported unloaded!]

    hope this helps

    My corrections in red. You take a big chance relying on others to read the law for you and much of what you have been told is incorrect and could get you some serious convictions, and prohibited from firearms possession for life.

    Here are several sources for the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act...

    pa2a.org - Wiki - Index of Statutes

    Pa.C.S. 18, II, G, 61, A: Uniform Firearms Act

    Pennsylvania Gun Laws - American Gun Owners Alliance

    And the link "wolf_fire" has posted in his original post, above.

    I am not a lawyer. Firearms laws in PA can be really confusing and while it can be fun to check with various sources, you always want to double check the statutes for yourself and see what they say, then ask questions relating to specific items for clarification. Too much can be misunderstood through conversation, and I have yet to find anyone who has memorized all 170 pages of the Pa. U.F.A. If I have posted anything confusing please ask and I will find and quote specific citations of law.

    For the more than 4 1/2 years I have open-carried throughout Pennsylvania, full time, and I have yet to have a problem with it. On the contrary, I have had some awesome conversations with literally hundreds of people regarding carry and the 2nd Amendment. Of course, your mileage my vary, but no one has even attempted to discourage me.
    While many claim to support the right, precious few support the practice.

  11. #10
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    Curmudgeon,

    Thanks for your input. I would like to add, that a bicycle is also considered a "vehicle" in PA, and as such would require a LTCF in either an open or concealed carry manner. I've had many a discussion with people on this. One just needs to read PA 18 CS 6106 (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.009.000..HTM) and know the definition of vehicle in the Motor Vehicle Code.

    This is why I urge anyone who open carries to get a LTCF to cover their butt.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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