should christmas carols be allowed in schools? - Page 3
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Thread: should christmas carols be allowed in schools?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    did not mean to imply that you were purposely trying to advance the communist agenda however your belief on the subject falls in line with what they feel should be accomplished in order to advance their cause. The fact that so many in America believe as you do on the subject proves that much of what they have tried to do has come to pass. Not only their blatant attack on religion but all of the list. God help us.
    As you put in your first reply we will have to agree to disagree. No disrespect or hard feelings. I stand by having no organized religious music, prayer, or activity in a public tax funded institution. You stand by the opposite.

    I agree with other posts as well that its a fine line between freedom or religion for all vs. supression of religion for some. Now I don't think that it has to be so P.C that someone cannot say "Merry Christmas" as another poster stated. If you say "Merry Christmas" i'll say "Thanks, you too" and with that I hope everyone had a great Christmas for those who celebrate. If not- I hope you had a good day :-D

    I did have a great day...
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  2.   
  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    Substitute Teacher Merry Hyatt Wants California Schools to Allow Christmas Carols - Sphere News

    It is my personal opinion that they should not. As for "excusing" the "minority" of people who don't want to partake- why should they miss the Holiday party because of religion?
    My point of view is not far from yours ClearSightTactical.
    My rationale is that if they allow religious based Christmas Carols then they should allow Obama Praise the Leader songs , they are both forms of indoctrination.

    Yes our Founding Fathers were religious men and were intelligent enough to realize that religious beliefs can endanger our country and deprive the rights of the minority, that is one reason why separation of church and state was in the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.

    Moreover Christians hijacked the Winter Solstice, Bishop says Christmas carols are nonsense and http://www.ucg.org/booklets/HH/jcnotborndec25.asp, in order to indoctrinate other beliefs into Christianity. Introducing religious Christmas carols is the same process to marginalize other beliefs...So in reality you can't put "Christ back in Christmas" if it is on December 25, but I don't mind sharing the Holidays for all people.

    I don't understand why it is so difficult to say no religion if there is government funding.
    The Citadel learned that the hard way when they denied women but accepted government funding, can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex or ethnic.

    BTW - Chinese and Vietnamese New Year are based on the Lunar New Year celebrations in late Jan/Feb as well as Ramadan in Aug/Sept also based on Lunar Calendar.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    lol see Sweden Atheist rate vs. Sweden Crime Rate then see US Christian Rate vs US Crime Rate

    Then look at US Crime Rate vs Sweden Crime Rate...
    Some interesting stats - never knew...

    Church attendance - Church attendance statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
    US #11 (44%) , Sweden #48 (4%), Switzerland #30 (16%), Japan #52 (3%)

    Total Crime - Total crimes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
    US #8, Sweden not in top 60, Switzerland #56, Japan #34.

  5. ClearSight,

    The problem I have with your premise is the one of the fundemental problems I have with all liberal ideology. If I am a consevative and I disagree with your position, I avoid it the situation, and quitely go on about my life. If I am a liberal and I disagree with your position, I write lettes, sue, get the law changed and do anything I have to to prevent you from having your position. Your way is a restriction of my liberty, and a violation of my Constitutional rights.
    The doctrine of "Seperation of Church and State", which is not explicitly written into the Constitution, is not inteded to wipe all religeous expression from public view, rather to prevent a theocracy.
    " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
    Every time Congress passes a law that prevents a person from praying, or celbrating Christmas, they are violating the First Amendment. Even in schools.
    On religeous tolerance, I belive by celebrating the holidays of the major religeons, you are promoting understanding and tolerance of each other. If it were truly about tolerance, the left would encourage Christmas Caroling, and educate about Passover, even Ramadan (having Sufi friends, I will tell you there are expressions of Islam that I am OK with, just not the mainstream ones, but that is another story)
    The problem is the left doesn't want tolerance, they want control

    If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
    If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

    If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
    If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

    If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.
    A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.

    If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
    If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

    If a black man or Hispanic are conservative, they see themselves as independently successful.
    Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government protection.

    If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
    A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

    If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels..
    Liberals demand that those they donít like be shut down.

    If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
    A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless itís a foreign religion, of course!)

    If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
    A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

    If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
    If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he's in labor and then
    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by melloyello View Post
    My point of view is not far from yours ClearSightTactical.
    My rationale is that if they allow religious based Christmas Carols then they should allow Obama Praise the Leader songs , they are both forms of indoctrination.

    Yes our Founding Fathers were religious men and were intelligent enough to realize that religious beliefs can endanger our country and deprive the rights of the minority, that is one reason why separation of church and state was in the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.

    Moreover Christians hijacked the Winter Solstice, Bishop says Christmas carols are nonsense and Why Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on December 25 > Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Observe?, in order to indoctrinate other beliefs into Christianity. Introducing religious Christmas carols is the same process to marginalize other beliefs...So in reality you can't put "Christ back in Christmas" if it is on December 25, but I don't mind sharing the Holidays for all people.

    I don't understand why it is so difficult to say no religion if there is government funding.
    The Citadel learned that the hard way when they denied women but accepted government funding, can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex or ethnic.

    BTW - Chinese and Vietnamese New Year are based on the Lunar New Year celebrations in late Jan/Feb as well as Ramadan in Aug/Sept also based on Lunar Calendar.
    Separation of church and state is not in the first amendment. Read it again. It says Congress shall make no law establishing religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Congress can not declare one religion over the other but they can not, I repeat can not prohibit the free exercise there of. It did not say in your home only or in you church only. It says can not prohibit period. It also does not deal with or give any latitude to local or state governments to prohibit it either. Many Americans for a number of years have believed a lie. Tell a lie often enough and you will believe it is true. The problem is that most Americans have grown up over the last 30-40 years attending a liberal, secular public school and listen to a liberal, secular media and really have no idea what the constitution really says or what the founding fathers intended.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Separation of church and state is not in the first amendment. Read it again. It says Congress shall make no law establishing religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Congress can not declare one religion over the other but they can not, I repeat can not prohibit the free exercise there of. It did not say in your home only or in you church only. It says can not prohibit period. It also does not deal with or give any latitude to local or state governments to prohibit it either. Many Americans for a number of years have believed a lie. Tell a lie often enough and you will believe it is true. The problem is that most Americans have grown up over the last 30-40 years attending a liberal, secular public school and listen to a liberal, secular media and really have no idea what the constitution really says or what the founding fathers intended.
    Also take into account when you deny Christmas decorations you're favoring one side over another. Which is more wrong, allowing those who do not believe or worship differently to take precedence over those who do believe? Denying anyone is wrong. Simply put the government should not get involved in religion or the non-belief of religion in any way. This is the true meaning of the 1st Amendment and what our forefathers wanted. "Separation of church and state" IS NOT in the Constitution but has permeated society to such and extent that it allows special interest groups to deny worship and celebration to the vast majority in this country.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I am offended when Christ is left out of Christmas. I am offended in all the garbage that comes from atheists trying to ban anything that has to do with Christianity. If someone is not a Christian then they should not take part in any of the Christmas holidays. It is Christmas for gosh sakes. A mass for Christ. And I did not mean to ride you to hard. It is absolutely not my intention to offend you or anyone else but you must understand if it comes down between standing up for my God that loves me enough to pay the price for my sins or worrying about the chance that I might offend someone then guess who is going to loose.
    The carols should be allowed in that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. If you do not beleive in Christ and simply wish to have a Winter Holiday, please enjoy that celebration. Do not infringe on the rights of others to celebrate our holdiday.

  9. To clarify- this isn't about YOU or YOUR CHILD or YOUR FRIEND wanting to take time out of their day and Pray- at school, at work, at Walmart, wherever.

    This is about an ORGANIZED event, or an event in which is not private. If you want to pray before eating I have no problem with that. If the teacher wants to play christmas songs for the entire class to hear- then I don't like it...I think you have every right to Pray in schools, at work, etc. I don't want to infringe on that. Again, I just don't think an entire class should have it forced on them.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  10. Quote Originally Posted by melloyello View Post
    Some interesting stats - never knew...

    Church attendance - Church attendance statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
    US #11 (44%) , Sweden #48 (4%), Switzerland #30 (16%), Japan #52 (3%)

    Total Crime - Total crimes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
    US #8, Sweden not in top 60, Switzerland #56, Japan #34.
    Thanks for posting this...

    As we can see a religious people doesn't necessarily mean anything...
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  11. Quote Originally Posted by melloyello View Post
    I don't understand why it is so difficult to say no religion if there is government funding.
    The Citadel learned that the hard way when they denied women but accepted government funding, can't discriminate based on race, religion, sex or ethnic.

    BTW - Chinese and Vietnamese New Year are based on the Lunar New Year celebrations in late Jan/Feb as well as Ramadan in Aug/Sept also based on Lunar Calendar.


    Agreed.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

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