should christmas carols be allowed in schools? - Page 7
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Thread: should christmas carols be allowed in schools?

  1. #61
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    I don't see why not...the law in Kennesaw, Ga. is that a citizen of the town must own a firearm. The laws of Louisiana are based on French Law, not English. Also, the (un?)official religion of Utah is Mormon. I suppose that if Congress isn't involved the local community can do anything it can get away with.

    The problem starts when Congress says that, if you're going to do that we're going to withhold Federal funds...which is the same thing as taking control over the decision.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
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  3. #62
    The first Amendment does not say anything about state or local. It only says what congress can and can't do. It can not establish a religion and it can not prohibit the free exercise thereof.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  4. #63
    Agreed. So, Christmas caroling in a local school is OK, by Constitutional measure.

    CST, as a scholar of the Constitution, do you therefore not agree? Not trying to pin you down, necessarily, but if we interpret the 1A like we do the 2A, then is caroling in a local public school, not permissible, according to the Constitution?

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Agreed. So, Christmas caroling in a local school is OK, by Constitutional measure.

    CST, as a scholar of the Constitution, do you therefore not agree? Not trying to pin you down, necessarily, but if we interpret the 1A like we do the 2A, then is caroling in a local public school, not permissible, according to the Constitution?

    Exactly
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  6. Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Agreed. So, Christmas caroling in a local school is OK, by Constitutional measure.

    CST, as a scholar of the Constitution, do you therefore not agree? Not trying to pin you down, necessarily, but if we interpret the 1A like we do the 2A, then is caroling in a local public school, not permissible, according to the Constitution?
    No scholar that's for sure...

    As for it being permissible- again I never wanted to stop YOU, I don't like the idea of organized caroling say at a morning assembly. If a group of kids or teachers for that matter want to have a performance during lunch or before/after school where a person can choose to go to said performance, I have no problem...

    If they want to have a performance or display of religion where a person has to go up and say "I don't want to take part in this", I think its a bad idea...By these standards 5 people can take "boom boxes" into a classroom and play all the religious music that they like at the same time, If I'm a member of the church of Satan (I assure you that I am not) then can I take recorded music, or better yet sing marilyn manson music in class? It is a religion ya know ;)

    JJFlash, as a professor you should agree that this is not exactly productive in an academic sense.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  7. #66
    Oh, I quite agree with you, CST, on the issue of "distraction", no doubt about that. So, yeah, if a group with boom boxes playing whatever (gangsta rap christmas music, traditional carols,...) came strolling into class with music blaring, I'd have something to say about it, alright. The students I teach (college-age) don't have their brains fully formed yet, so it'd be up to me to show them the path to academic righteousness!

  8. So - I think their should be a display from the church of Satan where others are forced to listen...

    YouTube - marilyn manson-you spin me right round
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  9. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    If a group of kids or teachers for that matter want to have a performance during lunch or before/after school where a person can choose to go to said performance, I have no problem...
    I can live with that.

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    So - I think their should be a display from the church of Satan where others are forced to listen...

    YouTube - marilyn manson-you spin me right round
    If you can get it passed thru the local school board, then I'm stuck, at least on first glance, by the Constitution. I'm not sure that the Founders were refering to ANY religion other than Judeo-Christian faiths, but I'll concede the point for now, given the language of the 1A. Now, I have a choice to make...fight for law change, remove my kids from the school, etc....just like you would.

    I've known some Satanists, Wiccans...interesting folks but I don't give 'em a snowflake's chance in hell when they meet the Big Guy. It's one reason all my tats are eagles and such, no demons, etc.; I don't want to meet the Lord and have him say: "Oh, you like demons, do you?" There's my "fear of the Lord" in play!

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    The first Amendment does not say anything about state or local. It only says what congress can and can't do. It can not establish a religion and it can not prohibit the free exercise thereof.
    To be correct, Congress cannot make a law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

    If we were pre-Civil war, when the States were sovereign, 1st amendment would not apply to states and citys. However, the Confederate States of America lost to the United States of America and the USA passed the 14th Amendment, Equal Protection Clause.

    Congress is defined by merriam-webster as:
    : the act or action of coming together and meeting
    : a formal meeting of delegates for discussion and usually action on some question
    : the supreme legislative body of a nation and especially of a republic
    : an association usually made up of delegates from constituent organizations
    : a single meeting or session of a group

    If the state or local governments have a Congress via the above definition, then it does apply via the 14th amendment, equal protection.
    The same thought process is being used to bring 2nd amendment rights to city and states, ie: McDonald vs. Chicago.
    Unless you are suggesting that Equal protection does not apply, therefore all US Constitutional Amendments doesn't apply to states, counties, townships, localities, cities, etc.
    Last edited by melloyello; 12-29-2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason: clarification

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