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Thread: Rights and Responsibilities

  1. #11
    IMHO i belive we sometimes get too wrapped up in what we have "the right to do"(ie. openly carry an orange ak pistol) and doing "what is right". Yes the OP in that thread was right he did have the right to openly carry his beloved ak. But was it the right thing to do, at that time, in that palce, ect???? There was also the thread were the guy in Ohio was detained while walking down the steeet OC. Again he was well within his rights but was it the right thing to do? Sometimes we get too caught up in what we believe in to think about anything other than the statment we are trying to make and give little or no thought to the possible negative side affects of our actions. I am not saying either person was right or wrong....just did they do "the right thing"? We live in the greatest country on this planet. We have more freedoms and rights, more oppotunities and privilages then any other country. Yet time and again we as a country choose only to see what is our rights instead of what is right. Having lived outside the U.S. for a few years while in the Army i can tell you if you think we are losing our rights you should see whats on the other side of the fence....the grass ain't always greener my friends. So in keeping with the theme of this thread i feel it is our responsibility not only to protect our rights but also to "do the right thing".

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  3. #12
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    Montana,
    Please think again about this,our rights are all equal (not sure if that word conveys what I am trying to say or is the right one to use), let me demonstrate by changing a few words in your post.


    Quote Originally Posted by MONTANA View Post
    I think that the right to carry a book brings a whole host of responsibilities. I believe people who carry books should be willing to accept responsibility, willing to apologize if they offend, and willing to train with both their mind and their reading/writing. It is important to anticipate possible teaching scenarios and then ask ourself, "what would a majority of reasonable authors do in this situation"?. I think that people who carry a newspapers are representatives of the God-given right to knowledge and as such, are on duty 24 hours a day. People who carry pens and paper should always seek to improve knowledge and skills, as opposed to meeting the minimum requirements for reading and writing.
    I know, some of my words don't really fit, I didnt want to change your post completely, just wanted to get the concept over to you. Yes, I do realize that firearms have the power to kill someone..... Words can also get someone killed.
    Just something to think about.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Along with our RKBA, surely we have some responsibilities. What might they be, in your opinion?

    In my opinion, (this may surprise some of those familiar with my posts on the other thread mentioned) I do believe that now, in this time we are living in, that there probably should be some type of training/testing requirement to CARRY firearms. Not any type of registration, or restrictions of possession, or any licensing at all.

    Just a simple little test/training to make sure you can demonstrate that you can handle the weapon safely and not injure yourself or others if you want to carry a gun (concealed or openly). Maybe just a little card that say's you didnt shoot your foot off or can recite the rules about firearm safety. I'm not sure how that could be done without infringing our rights though.
    Maybe get the marksmanship programs back into high school, things like that?

    My reasoning is that in this day and age, many of us may not get any training as a child, or not been exposed to firearms like those in earlier times would have. Firearms were just more a part of people's life earlier in our history.


    I'll start: I believe that we have the responsibility to be trained in the use of our firearm and that we must continue to train as long as we carry. Not to do so, IMHO, puts us, our loved ones, LEO, and the public at risk.
    nice topic

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    I'm going to keep to the theme of the thread... I have read the other post that JJ has mentioned here in this post and I have posted my 2 cents there with regards to the incident described.

    We have the right to protect ourselves from any assault by another citizen who intends us great bodily harm or death. It’s part of the Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness Right. They are interrelated as I see it.

    We have the right to keep and bear arms and to use them for the right mentioned above.

    We have the responsibility to make sure that if we need to use the weapon for our defense we do so with precision (most all have posted to that effect TRAIN, TRAIN, and TRAIN…Take the train when going to train for God's sake! Make sure we don’t infringe on the rights of another innocent citizen by causing them great bodily harm or death by mistake in defense of our own. I would never want that emotional baggage.

    We have the right to our own opinions regarding other gun owners and how they behave.
    Some behavior is dangerous, foolish, and annoying.
    We have the responsibility to be conscious that the other gun owners opinions may differ from ours regarding their behavior. That is true freedom folks. Our founding fathers would agree.

    We have the right to fight for the rights we have any way we see fit. Some will fight more than others and in ways that will make some of us cringe… It is freedom any way we slice it.

    We have the responsibility to be good ambassadors and represent our fellow gun owners in ways that would foster a good image and perhaps even make a good impression. Portray the group as rational thinkers and responsible law abiding citizens. This statement is based on a sense of self pride and will differ from person to person. What makes me feel proud may not fit for others. My idea of rational thought will differ from others. Again this is true freedom.

    I liked the picture of Charlton Heston with the quote “I’m the NRA”. He looked the part of the responsible American gun owner. That was an image though, and pictures don’t tell the entire story. Actions are the dialogue…

    We have the responsibility to follow the laws no matter how vehemently we may disagree with them. We also have the right to work hard to change the laws. We are part of that system…

    As always, comments and feedback are welcome. That’s the idea in this forum…

    Peace.

    Excellent post sir, Bravo!

  6. #15
    I believe in the rights & responsibilities of firearm owners, as long as they are not imposed, compulsory, mandated by the government etc...

    Morality & or responsibility should not, no make that MUST NOT be mandated...

    To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson...

    It is every citizens duty to at all times be armed, and to be trained at as early an age as possible to use said armament...

    P.S. In regards to the orange ak bit...

    Rights You Do Not Use... YOU LOSE...

    Whether we realize it or not we are being conditioned to think such things (as open carry) are offensive and threatening and generally stupid and unacceptable behavior...

    How many Virginia Tech or Ft. Hood type incidents would we have IF everybody that wanted to carry a firearm or other type of weapon such as Nunchaku, openly or otherwise were not prohibited by unconstitutional Weapon Free Zones?

    Great Example...
    Anybody ever see the Chuck Norris movie where the two robbers pulled guns out and tried to rob the cop bar and basically everybody in the place pulled at least one gun out on the two guys?

    WE THE PEOPLE need to stop being a country of spineless weenies and SHEEPLE...

    WE THE PEOPLE CAN READ "THE CONSTITUTION"

    Bill of Rights...
    God Given...
    Non-Negotiable...

    Without our Liberties, we have NOTHING...

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Montana,
    Please think again about this,our rights are all equal (not sure if that word conveys what I am trying to say or is the right one to use), let me demonstrate by changing a few words in your post.




    I know, some of my words don't really fit, I didnt want to change your post completely, just wanted to get the concept over to you. Yes, I do realize that firearms have the power to kill someone..... Words can also get someone killed.
    Just something to think about.
    I'm sorry, I missed your point completely. I am usually, but not always, pretty intuitive and pick up on things quickly. Since I didn't get your point, I am not sure I am even making a sensible response. With certain rights the responsibility of good judgement becomes more of an issue. In an example used by a training school in another context, imagine the following: you are crossing a busy intersection after the pedestrian light says it is ok to walk. All of a sudden you see a car speeding towards you and you realize that the driver has no intention to stop. It is your right to be in that cross-walk. Therefore do you stand there and become road kill or get the heck out of the way? Judgement certainly becomes an issue. I think the right to carry a firearm brings with it special responsiblities that do not come with carrying a book or other objects. But again, I did not get your point, so may not even be addressing what you were saying.

  8. #17
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    Montana,

    The point I was trying to make was this:

    That you seemed to want to impose certain rules/conditions on the 2A.

    I simply tried to insert 1A Rights in place of 2A Rights in your example, to get you to see that it would be unreasonable/silly to apply the same rules/restrictions on the 1A as you apparently want/suggest be applied to the 2A.

    If it were actually lawful (it is NOT) to restrict/regulate our Constitutional rights, those same rules would need to be applied evenly across the board to all those rights, not just the 2A.


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    Edited to add: Montana, after re-reading your post for the 5th time, I finally realize what you are saying (my fault, not your ability to write/convey your point), and you were not trying to add conditions, only asking us all to use our Rights responsibly. Sorry, my mind just immediately went to where it did because I have seen that type (the one I was refuting) of idea to impose rules only on the 2A many, many times before.

    I leave this post in it's entirety just in case anyone else comes along and makes that type of argument/statement.
    Last edited by Axeanda45; 01-09-2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: brain fart

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Montana,

    The point I was trying to make was this:

    That you seemed to want to impose certain rules/conditions on the 2A.

    I simply tried to insert 1A Rights in place of 2A Rights in your example, to get you to see that it would be unreasonable/silly to apply the same rules/restrictions on the 1A as you apparently want/suggest be applied to the 2A.

    If it were actually lawful (it is NOT) to restrict/regulate our Constitutional rights, those same rules would need to be applied evenly across the board to all those rights, not just the 2A.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Edited to add: Montana, after re-reading your post for the 5th time, I finally realize what you are saying (my fault, not your ability to write/convey your point), and you were not trying to add conditions, only asking us all to use our Rights responsibly. Sorry, my mind just immediately went to where it did because I have seen that type (the one I was refuting) of idea to impose rules only on the 2A many, many times before.

    I leave this post in it's entirety just in case anyone else comes along and makes that type of argument/statement.
    Ah, thank you for clarifying. Sorry I was misunderstood. I was responding to the initial post which asked our opinion about what responsibilities one might have in order to keep and bear arms. I believe people who keep and bear arms have responsibilities that must be self-imposed. I am definitely not an advocate of the government attempting to regulate judgement and self-discipline. If a person were to comply with such a government attempt, it would not guarantee that the citizen is more responsible, but that they could just be trying to avoid consequences. I am much more of a Libertarian in this particular matter. I wish that the Second Ammendment would have gone further and actually stated that city and state jurisdictions are prohibited from imposing any laws that would violate a law abiding citizen's right to keep, bear, and transport arms. I believe that people who keep and bear arms have personal responsibilities to maintain their training and to continually strive for mature decision making. However that sense of responsibility can't be imposed by government. It has to come from somewhere within the person. I don't know if this lofty concept can ever be realized.......as you can see from the various posts, it is very subjective.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Macklin View Post
    Those who support the Second Amendment [and all the others] should keep in mind how what they do will effect laws, restrictions and rights.

    It may be legal to carry an AK 47, openly down main street. But that does not mean it is a wise political act.

    THEY don't know it is legal and so they aren't bothered by it. But when they see it they will call the cops. And when the cops tell them it is legal the next thing they will do is call their state legislator, city councilman and the newspapers.

    That may get the law changed.

    And all because a few pro-gun activists demonstrated.
    exacctly, i'm 54 and a veteran and i do dress in cammo most of the time. having said that, i have enough common sense that if i strap my m-4 on and go for a walk in a park i'm going to scare some one s***less and the law is going to swarm me like a bull dog on a ham bone!!! just because you have the right to carry does not always mean that you should. i have to ask why this guy did this, from the video he clearly want's to file a lawsuit! this is not doing our cause any good. just my .02 cents

  11. Quote Originally Posted by MONTANA View Post
    ...I believe people who keep and bear arms have responsibilities that must be self-imposed. I am definitely not an advocate of the government attempting to regulate judgement and self-discipline. If a person were to comply with such a government attempt, it would not guarantee that the citizen is more responsible, but that they could just be trying to avoid consequences. I am much more of a Libertarian in this particular matter. I wish that the Second Ammendment would have gone further and actually stated that city and state jurisdictions are prohibited from imposing any laws that would violate a law abiding citizen's right to keep, bear, and transport arms. I believe that people who keep and bear arms have personal responsibilities to maintain their training and to continually strive for mature decision making. However that sense of responsibility can't be imposed by government. It has to come from somewhere within the person. I don't know if this lofty concept can ever be realized.......as you can see from the various posts, it is very subjective.
    Good post...

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