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Thread: Serving on Juries

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    If everyone acted as you advise, our imperfect, but still the world's best, legal system would quickly devolve into utter chaos. It is true that a few would get a better result your way. Unfortunately NO ONE would be able to count on justice. What you propose is vigilante justice, a recipe for disaster. I hope you will reconsider your position and that no one will follow your advice.
    I disagree,please read Ronwll's response. Please read his links.

    The government has been in violation of the US Constitution for a long time.
    When the Government ignores the law, it is up to the citizen to act and jury nulification is a great way to do that.

    Many prosicutors are only interested in convictions not justice.

    We have a duty to use jury nulificccation when needed.

  2.   
  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Military Man View Post
    I disagree,please read Ronwll's response. Please read his links.

    The government has been in violation of the US Constitution for a long time.
    When the Government ignores the law, it is up to the citizen to act and jury nulification is a great way to do that.

    Many prosicutors are only interested in convictions not justice.

    We have a duty to use jury nulificccation when needed.
    +1000. for instance if I were on a jury and a person was on trial because he was caught carrying a gun say in the peoples republic of Chicago I would most likely vote not guilty because the 2nd Amendment was violated when Chicago banded guns. A law that is in violation of the Constitution is a bad law. The Constitution is the highest law of the land.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RonSC View Post
    I am in total agreement with the above poster. If we as jury members disregard the "rule of law" and/ or the judges admonishment in a particular case, we are JUST as guilty as those liberal activist judges who "legislate" from the bench. It is incumbent upon all jurors to vote based solely on the preponderance of evidence presented regardless personal feelings.

    Ron
    Wrong it can be a bad law. If it becomes law tomorrow that no one can pray or carry a Bible and someone is arrested for violating the law I would not vote guilty. If as in Red China it becomes law that you can not have say more than one child and if you become pregnant you must kill the unborn baby I would vote not guilty if someone was on trial for not following the "law". God gave us a brain we do not have to follow blindly.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  5. #14
    One thing to remember here is that true jury nullification requires 12 votes. Anything less results in a hung jury and a new trial.

  6. #15
    Every person should serve on at least three juries, even magistrate or city court is fine. Serving, if you willingly serve and are open about it you will find it a great learning experience. I had a friend that once said that there is no way he would ever vote to convict someone of DUI no matter what. He had once been convicted of DUI and that was his feeling. Ther is no difference in his feeling and someone who goes into a trail with the opinion that jury nullification is a good option. In fact that was in reality what my friend's feeling were.

    To me the greatest right of the American People stated in the Constitution is the right to trial by jury and the right to face our accuser. When we go into a trial with a preconceived notion of any outcome then we are giving up that right. In criminal cases they are usually referred to as "The People" vs. the defendant. It is no the LEO or DA or Prosecutor or Judge or Politician vs. the defendant. All of us want to think of it as LEO vs. someone but they are our representatives. We have the right and responsibility to see that both sides get a fair trial.

  7. #16

    Check out this website "Fully Informed Jury Association"...

    Fully Informed Jury Association

    This statement is posted on it's home page:

    "The primary function of the independent juror is not, as many think, to dispense punishment to fellow citizens accused of breaking various laws, but rather to protect fellow citizens from tyrannical abuses of power by government. The Constitution guarantees you a right to a trial by jury. This means that government must bring its case before a jury of the People if government wants to deprive any person of life, liberty or property. Jurors can say no to government tyranny by refusing to convict."

    The Executive Director of Fully Informed Jury Association, Iloilo Marguerite Jones, wrote the following article, found at The Price of Liberty.org --- Blueprint to Restore America By Iloilo Marguerite Jones - Price of Liberty

    Blueprint to Restore America
    By Iloilo Marguerite Jones

    May 05, 2008

    If you are reading this, you are already searching for solutions to problems caused by government. Each day, government politicians and bureaucrats impose more restrictions on our freedoms. Government’s tyrannical gun controls, privacy violations, taking of property, claiming ownership of the fruits of our labor ~ and even of our bodies ~ are worsening daily. You already know this.

    We see government taking our property, the product of our labors, thus depriving us of the days of our lives we have invested to acquire our property. Our paychecks are plundered before they reach our hands. Our property is subject to seizure any time we fail to allocate much of our labors to pay taxes. Our tools are subject to seizure if they are not tools approved by government. More and more harmless people are tasered, locked away in prisons, or killed by government employees who then go free. We are subject to being stopped and searched at any time. We can no longer travel freely. Our private correspondence is invaded worse than any Revolutionary War plot to capture the letters of the Revolutionaries.

    Short of armed revolution, how do we defend our lives, our property, our rights and our freedom?

    What Can You Do?

    What can you do, as one free individual, to make a difference? How can you protect your human rights, and the rights of others? How can you regain the birthright of liberty, left to you by those who fought and died that we might enjoy individual human rights and the blessings of liberty, life, property, and prosperity? How can you peacefully regain these rights? How do you, one individual, become a revolutionary force of justice and freedom?

    Become a juror. To learn more, visit Fully Informed Jury Association, or call 1-800-TEL-Jury for a free information packet. One of the best and least-known methods you can use to protect your rights and the rights of everyone is to serve on a jury every chance you get. Yes, you read that correctly: every chance you get, serve on a jury.

    To defend peaceful, productive individuals from routinely abused power of government, you must first get on the jury. During jury selection, lawyers and judges, who like to dictate the law, and remove thinking people from juries. The corrupted power of lawyers and judges is dependent upon ignorant, unthinking jurors who will do whatever they are told by government officers, even in violation of good conscience and constitutional law. Be educated!

    YOU, as one individual, cannot do much to effect legislation. But YOU can effectively defend the Constitution when a gun owner, a tax resister, or someone who knows he owns his individual body, is on trial for not following government-made laws that are both unconstitutional and violate human rights. The primary responsibility of any juror is to protect innocent humans from government tyranny. That means any violation of basic human rights should be nullified by you, the juror. This is your individual executive veto power, built into our justice system by our founders.

    How Can You Do This?

    One person can “hang” a Jury by refusing to convict. You cannot be punished for doing so. If you are called to serve on a jury, do so! In turn, if your rational exercise of a right is ever described as a gun crime, a property crime, or a body management crime, by a typical government prosecutor, wouldn’t you want a member of your Jury to be an informed gun owner, tax resister or supplement user? You would want them to understand that they can hang a jury by simply stating that the government prosecutor failed to prove the government case. This is important: You can also state no reason for your verdict, as is your right.

    Liberty exists only among reasoning people who are tolerant of human diversity. Tyranny thrives on intolerance. Reasoning jurors defend liberty when they refuse to convict fellow citizens who are maliciously accused of crimes. Reasoning jurors stopped the Salem Witch Trials of 1692 and freed tax protesters during the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Juries refused to convict under the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850, during Liquor Prohibition from 1920-30, Vietnam Objectors from 1960-1970, Tax Resisters, Medical Marijuana Users, Home-Schoolers, Property Owners, Gun Owners, ID Resisters, and others.

    The defense of our liberties comes first at the ballot box, then the soap box, then the jury box, and finally, failing all else, the cartridge box. The writers of the US Constitution understood that power always corrupts, and that the people must retain and understand all the ways to defend themselves from the greatest threat to liberty: one’s own government. The founders wrote the Constitution with many checks and balances for the People to use - peacefully - to keep government under control. Some of us never heard about these checks and balances, because the government-run schools do not teach about juror veto rights, nor will government judges or government-licensed attorneys tell you about this right when you are called for jury duty.

    For instance, there are more than 20,000 inferior gun laws contradicting the superior or prevailing law of the US Constitution’s Second Amendment. Because the judges and lawyers are ignorant of the Constitution and the Common Law, it is only a matter of time before you or one of your friends are stupidly accused of some victimless crime. Enough of us must become informed jurors and use our juror veto, or nullification, to refuse to convict those who have been wrongfully accused of some government-invented crime. An actual crime is when another individual human is injured, not when a reasonable peaceful person fails to obey some tyrannical government mandate or pronouncement. (Government has no rights, and therefore, cannot be injured by a person. If no other human is injured in any way, by force or fraud, then there is no crime. Period.)

    The duty and function of the juror is to apply honest common-sense reasoning that is without craving for power of office. Lawyers and judges literally cannot understand that concept even if they read these words, which is why wise people instituted the peer jury system with its authority over lawyers and judges. The jury is the highest authority in the courtroom. Jurors are not officers of the court: jurors own the courts! This veto authority is how we, the People, keep our government under our control.

    Why Should You Do This?

    The promotions of government prosecutors and judges are based on their record of protecting and increasing the corrupt power of government. That entrenched corruption is easily verified. Court judges are no longer a check and balance on the executive or legislative branches that select those court judges for lucrative and ego-gratifying promotions, often as a reward for loyalty to political tyranny.

    Court officers and prosecutors profile jurors based on their psychological and professional likelihood of not questioning what some government authority-figure says, so the jurors will do exactly what a judge tells them in the jury instructions. That is the same type person every dictator selects for his minions. Gullible people who do not question authority are the foundation of every tyranny. Always question all authority. Always.

    What Are the Results If Jurors Veto Bad Laws?

    In 1789 Thomas Jefferson accurately stated: "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution."

    The People of this country advanced individual human freedom above government power, until corrupted judges usurped the jury system by refusing to remind jurors of their authority to judge the law and the facts of any case. Judges then imposed unlawful jury instructions that fooled gullible jurors into rubber-stamping guilty verdicts that the judge devised with instructions and by disallowing evidence that proved innocence. The lawyer-judge written Rules of the Court replaced the US Constitution within the judge-ruled dictatorship of what were, once, our Courts.

    The only anchor – the juror - holding government to the US Constitution was thus rendered useless by this process, unless the juror knew prior to entering the courtroom about the authority of the juror. You know from reading the Constitution that nothing in the Constitution remains in effect in the United States of America, except at the personal whim of court judges who may grant their friends and colleagues the privilege of exercising human rights, while sending others to prison for the exact same offense.

    When jurors refuse to convict, legislators and prosecutors know that the law is NOT supported by the community. Acquittals and hung juries are politically embarrassing to the power-craving prosecutors, legislatures, bureaucrats and most judges. Do not underestimate the effect that acquittals have on the currently out-of-control law and regulation writing process. One thinking person among each of only a few juries, who understands the value of individual liberty that cost so many lives to create, can regain gun owner rights in the US.

    A very important point is that in recent jury decisions, where the defendant may have been found not guilty of the felony counts, but perhaps guilty of some minor misdemeanor counts, the judges will use these verdicts of guilt on lesser offenses to “throw the book” at the defendant, often sentencing the person on trial to the maximum allowed under the law, such as happened in the Waco, Snipes and other trials. Jurors need to remember that government employees can be vindictive, and therefore, jurors should refuse to convict a defendant on any counts when it is apparent that the government wants to “get” the defendant and when there is no harm to another person.

    For jury nullification to protect all human and constitutional rights, it is necessary for jurors to learn about their authority to judge laws and their application.

    The reason that the jurors can lawfully and logically ignore the traditionally corrupted judge's instructions, and apply their conscience alone for their decision as a duty created by the jury system, is that no law requires, or can successfully require, a juror to reveal the reason she or he made their decision. There is no way to look inside a human mind to verify anything. To any government question of the juror's decision, the juror can lawfully respond with silence, or respond that the question seems intimidating, and thus unlawfully tampering with the jury duties. Or the juror can simply state that the evidence was not credible or sufficient. Jurors need never reveal their conscience or their decision-making process.

    For every person accused of a crime by the government, each juror would wisely ask their own conscience these questions:

    1. Did the action of the accused result in a real person being damaged against their will, whether by force or by fraud?

    2. Was the damage real and verifiable? If the answer is “No” to these questions, why would you, as a juror, agree to punish this person, either with a fine, or jail or prison time?

    And you might ask, “Why is government wasting my tax dollars on this case?” Refuse to convict. It is your right and your authority!

    How Can You Spread the Word?

    Visit FIJA at Fully Informed Jury Association for more information you can use to become a juror for justice. At our web supply shop, you will find literature, brochures to share, essays, various educational tapes, and DVDs.

    Want more information right away? Act now! Call 1-800-TEL-JURY for a free information kit!

    Now That You Know, What Else Can You Do?

    Learn all you can about FIJA and Jury Veto Authority.
    Hand out FIJA Literature, give local Radio and TV interviews, get in touch with your state FIJA contact, or contact our national office.
    Speak about FIJA to Local Groups
    Write Letters to the Editor, put up FIJA Posters. Encourage people to demand jury trials, and help educate the jury pool in your area.
    Leave FIJA brochures at neighborhood meetings, PTA meetings, in your Church, at the office or your place of work, at gun shops and ranges, at medical offices, and any other place you have permission to leave materials.
    Talk to people about this wonderful tool for restoring the Constitutional Republic our founders intended.
    Conservative Wife & Mom -- I'm a Conservative Christian-American with dual citizenship...the Kingdom of God is my 1st home and the U.S.A. is my 2nd.

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Wife & Mom View Post
    Fully Informed Jury Association

    This statement is posted on it's home page:

    "The primary function of the independent juror is not, as many think, to dispense punishment to fellow citizens accused of breaking various laws, but rather to protect fellow citizens from tyrannical abuses of power by government. The Constitution guarantees you a right to a trial by jury. This means that government must bring its case before a jury of the People if government wants to deprive any person of life, liberty or property. Jurors can say no to government tyranny by refusing to convict."

    The Executive Director of Fully Informed Jury Association, Iloilo Marguerite Jones, wrote the following article, found at The Price of Liberty.org --- Blueprint to Restore America By Iloilo Marguerite Jones - Price of Liberty

    Blueprint to Restore America
    By Iloilo Marguerite Jones

    May 05, 2008

    If you are reading this, you are already searching for solutions to problems caused by government. Each day, government politicians and bureaucrats impose more restrictions on our freedoms. Government’s tyrannical gun controls, privacy violations, taking of property, claiming ownership of the fruits of our labor ~ and even of our bodies ~ are worsening daily. You already know this.

    We see government taking our property, the product of our labors, thus depriving us of the days of our lives we have invested to acquire our property. Our paychecks are plundered before they reach our hands. Our property is subject to seizure any time we fail to allocate much of our labors to pay taxes. Our tools are subject to seizure if they are not tools approved by government. More and more harmless people are tasered, locked away in prisons, or killed by government employees who then go free. We are subject to being stopped and searched at any time. We can no longer travel freely. Our private correspondence is invaded worse than any Revolutionary War plot to capture the letters of the Revolutionaries.

    Short of armed revolution, how do we defend our lives, our property, our rights and our freedom?

    What Can You Do?

    What can you do, as one free individual, to make a difference? How can you protect your human rights, and the rights of others? How can you regain the birthright of liberty, left to you by those who fought and died that we might enjoy individual human rights and the blessings of liberty, life, property, and prosperity? How can you peacefully regain these rights? How do you, one individual, become a revolutionary force of justice and freedom?

    Become a juror. To learn more, visit Fully Informed Jury Association, or call 1-800-TEL-Jury for a free information packet. One of the best and least-known methods you can use to protect your rights and the rights of everyone is to serve on a jury every chance you get. Yes, you read that correctly: every chance you get, serve on a jury.

    To defend peaceful, productive individuals from routinely abused power of government, you must first get on the jury. During jury selection, lawyers and judges, who like to dictate the law, and remove thinking people from juries. The corrupted power of lawyers and judges is dependent upon ignorant, unthinking jurors who will do whatever they are told by government officers, even in violation of good conscience and constitutional law. Be educated!

    YOU, as one individual, cannot do much to effect legislation. But YOU can effectively defend the Constitution when a gun owner, a tax resister, or someone who knows he owns his individual body, is on trial for not following government-made laws that are both unconstitutional and violate human rights. The primary responsibility of any juror is to protect innocent humans from government tyranny. That means any violation of basic human rights should be nullified by you, the juror. This is your individual executive veto power, built into our justice system by our founders.

    How Can You Do This?

    One person can “hang” a Jury by refusing to convict. You cannot be punished for doing so. If you are called to serve on a jury, do so! In turn, if your rational exercise of a right is ever described as a gun crime, a property crime, or a body management crime, by a typical government prosecutor, wouldn’t you want a member of your Jury to be an informed gun owner, tax resister or supplement user? You would want them to understand that they can hang a jury by simply stating that the government prosecutor failed to prove the government case. This is important: You can also state no reason for your verdict, as is your right.

    Liberty exists only among reasoning people who are tolerant of human diversity. Tyranny thrives on intolerance. Reasoning jurors defend liberty when they refuse to convict fellow citizens who are maliciously accused of crimes. Reasoning jurors stopped the Salem Witch Trials of 1692 and freed tax protesters during the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Juries refused to convict under the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850, during Liquor Prohibition from 1920-30, Vietnam Objectors from 1960-1970, Tax Resisters, Medical Marijuana Users, Home-Schoolers, Property Owners, Gun Owners, ID Resisters, and others.

    The defense of our liberties comes first at the ballot box, then the soap box, then the jury box, and finally, failing all else, the cartridge box. The writers of the US Constitution understood that power always corrupts, and that the people must retain and understand all the ways to defend themselves from the greatest threat to liberty: one’s own government. The founders wrote the Constitution with many checks and balances for the People to use - peacefully - to keep government under control. Some of us never heard about these checks and balances, because the government-run schools do not teach about juror veto rights, nor will government judges or government-licensed attorneys tell you about this right when you are called for jury duty.

    For instance, there are more than 20,000 inferior gun laws contradicting the superior or prevailing law of the US Constitution’s Second Amendment. Because the judges and lawyers are ignorant of the Constitution and the Common Law, it is only a matter of time before you or one of your friends are stupidly accused of some victimless crime. Enough of us must become informed jurors and use our juror veto, or nullification, to refuse to convict those who have been wrongfully accused of some government-invented crime. An actual crime is when another individual human is injured, not when a reasonable peaceful person fails to obey some tyrannical government mandate or pronouncement. (Government has no rights, and therefore, cannot be injured by a person. If no other human is injured in any way, by force or fraud, then there is no crime. Period.)

    The duty and function of the juror is to apply honest common-sense reasoning that is without craving for power of office. Lawyers and judges literally cannot understand that concept even if they read these words, which is why wise people instituted the peer jury system with its authority over lawyers and judges. The jury is the highest authority in the courtroom. Jurors are not officers of the court: jurors own the courts! This veto authority is how we, the People, keep our government under our control.

    Why Should You Do This?

    The promotions of government prosecutors and judges are based on their record of protecting and increasing the corrupt power of government. That entrenched corruption is easily verified. Court judges are no longer a check and balance on the executive or legislative branches that select those court judges for lucrative and ego-gratifying promotions, often as a reward for loyalty to political tyranny.

    Court officers and prosecutors profile jurors based on their psychological and professional likelihood of not questioning what some government authority-figure says, so the jurors will do exactly what a judge tells them in the jury instructions. That is the same type person every dictator selects for his minions. Gullible people who do not question authority are the foundation of every tyranny. Always question all authority. Always.

    What Are the Results If Jurors Veto Bad Laws?

    In 1789 Thomas Jefferson accurately stated: "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution."

    The People of this country advanced individual human freedom above government power, until corrupted judges usurped the jury system by refusing to remind jurors of their authority to judge the law and the facts of any case. Judges then imposed unlawful jury instructions that fooled gullible jurors into rubber-stamping guilty verdicts that the judge devised with instructions and by disallowing evidence that proved innocence. The lawyer-judge written Rules of the Court replaced the US Constitution within the judge-ruled dictatorship of what were, once, our Courts.

    The only anchor – the juror - holding government to the US Constitution was thus rendered useless by this process, unless the juror knew prior to entering the courtroom about the authority of the juror. You know from reading the Constitution that nothing in the Constitution remains in effect in the United States of America, except at the personal whim of court judges who may grant their friends and colleagues the privilege of exercising human rights, while sending others to prison for the exact same offense.

    When jurors refuse to convict, legislators and prosecutors know that the law is NOT supported by the community. Acquittals and hung juries are politically embarrassing to the power-craving prosecutors, legislatures, bureaucrats and most judges. Do not underestimate the effect that acquittals have on the currently out-of-control law and regulation writing process. One thinking person among each of only a few juries, who understands the value of individual liberty that cost so many lives to create, can regain gun owner rights in the US.

    A very important point is that in recent jury decisions, where the defendant may have been found not guilty of the felony counts, but perhaps guilty of some minor misdemeanor counts, the judges will use these verdicts of guilt on lesser offenses to “throw the book” at the defendant, often sentencing the person on trial to the maximum allowed under the law, such as happened in the Waco, Snipes and other trials. Jurors need to remember that government employees can be vindictive, and therefore, jurors should refuse to convict a defendant on any counts when it is apparent that the government wants to “get” the defendant and when there is no harm to another person.

    For jury nullification to protect all human and constitutional rights, it is necessary for jurors to learn about their authority to judge laws and their application.

    The reason that the jurors can lawfully and logically ignore the traditionally corrupted judge's instructions, and apply their conscience alone for their decision as a duty created by the jury system, is that no law requires, or can successfully require, a juror to reveal the reason she or he made their decision. There is no way to look inside a human mind to verify anything. To any government question of the juror's decision, the juror can lawfully respond with silence, or respond that the question seems intimidating, and thus unlawfully tampering with the jury duties. Or the juror can simply state that the evidence was not credible or sufficient. Jurors need never reveal their conscience or their decision-making process.

    For every person accused of a crime by the government, each juror would wisely ask their own conscience these questions:

    1. Did the action of the accused result in a real person being damaged against their will, whether by force or by fraud?

    2. Was the damage real and verifiable? If the answer is “No” to these questions, why would you, as a juror, agree to punish this person, either with a fine, or jail or prison time?

    And you might ask, “Why is government wasting my tax dollars on this case?” Refuse to convict. It is your right and your authority!

    How Can You Spread the Word?

    Visit FIJA at Fully Informed Jury Association for more information you can use to become a juror for justice. At our web supply shop, you will find literature, brochures to share, essays, various educational tapes, and DVDs.

    Want more information right away? Act now! Call 1-800-TEL-JURY for a free information kit!

    Now That You Know, What Else Can You Do?

    Learn all you can about FIJA and Jury Veto Authority.
    Hand out FIJA Literature, give local Radio and TV interviews, get in touch with your state FIJA contact, or contact our national office.
    Speak about FIJA to Local Groups
    Write Letters to the Editor, put up FIJA Posters. Encourage people to demand jury trials, and help educate the jury pool in your area.
    Leave FIJA brochures at neighborhood meetings, PTA meetings, in your Church, at the office or your place of work, at gun shops and ranges, at medical offices, and any other place you have permission to leave materials.
    Talk to people about this wonderful tool for restoring the Constitutional Republic our founders intended.
    I have somewhere in my possession one of their booklets and it has some very good info in it.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    733

    Exclamation Slippery slope, indeed....

    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    If everyone acted as you advise, our imperfect, but still the world's best, legal system would quickly devolve into utter chaos. It is true that a few would get a better result your way. Unfortunately NO ONE would be able to count on justice. What you propose is vigilante justice, a recipe for disaster. I hope you will reconsider your position and that no one will follow your advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by RonSC View Post
    I am in total agreement with the above poster. If we as jury members disregard the "rule of law" and/ or the judges admonishment in a particular case, we are JUST as guilty as those liberal activist judges who "legislate" from the bench. It is incumbent upon all jurors to vote based solely on the preponderance of evidence presented regardless personal feelings.
    This is the same kind of "don't rock the boat" logic that allows large numbers of good people to ignore, tolerate, or even participate in horrible acts of repression and violence. It is this type of refusal to critically analyze that allowed groups like the Nazi's and the Stalinist's their rise to power.

    !!! Please keep in mind that I am NOT inferring that you guys are either. I generally agree with most of your posts!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    +1000. for instance if I were on a jury and a person was on trial because he was caught carrying a gun say in the peoples republic of Chicago I would most likely vote not guilty because the 2nd Amendment was violated when Chicago banded guns. A law that is in violation of the Constitution is a bad law. The Constitution is the highest law of the land.
    Splendid example, HK. Thanks!
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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