The undermining of our Christian heritage..... - Page 6
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Thread: The undermining of our Christian heritage.....

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    I understand that over the course of history these two groups have been going at each other. Regardless of who started it (sounds like an excuse my kids would use, "he did it first", "no he started it, he called me..."). But, it wasn’t the U.N.'s place to take away someone else’s land (no matter how big of a crap hole it is) and give it to someone else. Especially if the land we are giving away has been considered as holy land by both of the two arguing groups. If your kids were fighting over a toy, would you take it away and give it just one of them?

    Then, to say this has been part of a prophecy, and to use that as an excuse to get involved in a fight seems ridiculous to me. There have been numerous prophets over the years. I don’t think that “because Nostradamus said so”, is a good excuse to get involved in a war.

    So since its conception way back when... these two have not liked each other (maybe one more so than the other), So the muslims incorporated into their religious philosophy, and into their holy book that they should ultimately hate the jews, and anyone that helps their enemies. And, just because Israel offered what appears to be a peaceful and sensible deal, the muslims could take that as condescending which would piss them off even more so. If you got mad at me for what I believed and for taking something that does not rightfully belong to me (and that you think belongs to you), then you attacked me, and I beat you up. Then said I would share this (what I stole, that belongs to you (from your perspective)), with you. Wouldn't you still have some anemosity?

    As we have seen from some of these posts religion runs very deep. And, it is easy for someone of one religion to get upset and offended by a comment that questions or disagrees with their beliefs.
    The land that you say that was taken away by the U.N. never belonged to the Arabs. Up until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and dispersed the Jewish NATION the land belonged to the Jews. Since 70 A.D. the land was just there,barren, no people had claim to it. Religious beliefs are one thing, history is another. The Bible is a history book as well as the word of God, and, recognized by the Smithsonian Institute as to be the most credible in it's content. Israel is not considered a holy land by the Jews, they simply consider it their homeland. Israel has never been anything holy to the Arabs, just land. Jerusalem is thousands of years old, it has always been Jewish. Neither Israel nor Jerusalem has ever had any significant value or considered holy by Islam until the Jews returned to the land that God has given them. Take note sir, Jerusalem is mentioned over 600 times in the Bible, NOT EVEN ONE TIME IN THE KORAN. This should give you a hint of whose land it was, and still is.

    Whether you like prophecy or not is irrelevant. Circumstances foretold thousands of years before they happen, and what is foretold happens thousands of years later as predicted they would happen, everyone (hundreds) with 100% accuracy , proves beyond any reasonable doubt that God is who He says He is and His word is absolute truth. And yes,Israel becoming a nation a second time in the Last Days (End Times) is prophecy, and it happened exactly as God said it would. God has also said that in the End Times that all nations shall come against Israel, but, Israel will prevail, NEVER to be driven out of their land again. I could care less how many A-bombs Iran develops or who attacks Israel, Israel will survive, period. And I don't become offended by comments that question or disagree with my beliefs. Recorded history,the Bible, and God's Word of prophecy clearly substantiate my beliefs and my facts. Read your newspaper, turn on your T.V. and you'll witness prophecy being fulfilled everyday in current events around the world, ESPECIALLY IN ISRAEL.
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

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  3. #52
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    Hey onlinedad: I will only say this one more time and sign off on this thread so I do not have to deal with you and just allow you to continue to embarrass yourself to others. Your additional quote "our country (who are these "our"?) has let "jews" become empowered". Certainly appreciate you and your friends allowing jews to be part of this country. Perhaps you did not know that jews fought and died in the Revolutionary War and that this country is as much mine as it is yours but I humbly thank you for allowing me, a jew, to live and thrive here among you and the only true Americans.
    PS:I know you said nothing that can be construed as anti-(semetic)----you really do not appreciate that many of your comments, however, were anti-(semitic) and your additional comments only embarrass you to forum members who appreciate and understand what you initially said and your ignorant responses that followed.

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    The land that you say that was taken away by the U.N. never belonged to the Arabs. Up until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and dispersed the Jewish NATION the land belonged to the Jews. Since 70 A.D. the land was just there,barren, no people had claim to it. Religious beliefs are one thing, history is another. The Bible is a history book as well as the word of God, and, recognized by the Smithsonian Institute as to be the most credible in it's content. Israel is not considered a holy land by the Jews, they simply consider it their homeland. Israel has never been anything holy to the Arabs, just land. Jerusalem is thousands of years old, it has always been Jewish. Neither Israel nor Jerusalem has ever had any significant value or considered holy by Islam until the Jews returned to the land that God has given them. Take note sir, Jerusalem is mentioned over 600 times in the Bible, NOT EVEN ONE TIME IN THE KORAN. This should give you a hint of whose land it was, and still is.

    Whether you like prophecy or not is irrelevant. Circumstances foretold thousands of years before they happen, and what is foretold happens thousands of years later as predicted they would happen, everyone (hundreds) with 100% accuracy , proves beyond any reasonable doubt that God is who He says He is and His word is absolute truth. And yes,Israel becoming a nation a second time in the Last Days (End Times) is prophecy, and it happened exactly as God said it would. God has also said that in the End Times that all nations shall come against Israel, but, Israel will prevail, NEVER to be driven out of their land again. I could care less how many A-bombs Iran develops or who attacks Israel, Israel will survive, period. And I don't become offended by comments that question or disagree with my beliefs. Recorded history,the Bible, and God's Word of prophecy clearly substantiate my beliefs and my facts. Read your newspaper, turn on your T.V. and you'll witness prophecy being fulfilled everyday in current events around the world, ESPECIALLY IN ISRAEL.
    Well said!
    Conservative Wife & Mom -- I'm a Conservative Christian-American with dual citizenship...the Kingdom of God is my 1st home and the U.S.A. is my 2nd.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey onlinedad: I will only say this one more time and sign off on this thread so I do not have to deal with you and just allow you to continue to embarrass yourself to others. Your additional quote "our country (who are these "our"?) has let "jews" become empowered". Certainly appreciate you and your friends allowing jews to be part of this country. Perhaps you did not know that jews fought and died in the Revolutionary War and that this country is as much mine as it is yours but I humbly thank you for allowing me, a jew, to live and thrive here among you and the only true Americans.
    PS:I know you said nothing that can be construed as anti-(semetic)----you really do not appreciate that many of your comments, however, were anti-(semitic) and your additional comments only embarrass you to forum members who appreciate and understand what you initially said and your ignorant responses that followed.
    It's amazes me that people claiming to know American History like to leave out people like HAYM SALOMON, A JEW broker, whom the U.S. Postal Service issued a stamp hailing Salomon as a "Financial Hero of the American Revolution". Were it not for Salomon and other patriotic Jews coming to the financial aid of our country when they did, we wouldn't have a country. Solomon sacrificed his personal fortune as well, and died penniless. Salomon's name is forever linked to the idealism and success of the American Revolution, and to the contribution Jews have made to the cause of American freedom.
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    To HK4U:

    Holy Crap! Nice find, I'll read through it more completely as I have time, but from skimming over it, it appears as though my history lessons growing up left out some of these quotes. I will concede (at this time) that since the colonization and the birth of the U.S. it has been founded upon the christian religion.

    But, I will still argue that its time to move on, and push past the governing of people by a belief :D Basically it makes for good conversation, since noone's one opinion here will go on to solve the problems of the world anyway
    I would have to say that a lot of our problems in this country today stem from the fact that we have to a large degree already moved on as you put it. Scripture says that in the last days there will be a great falling away. I believe that has started in America and thus the protective hand of God is being removed. Our founding fathers being it would appear much wiser that many today knew what they were doing. IMHO.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I would have to say that a lot of our problems in this country today stem from the fact that we have to a large degree already moved on as you put it. Scripture says that in the last days there will be a great falling away. I believe that has started in America and thus the protective hand of God is being removed. Our founding fathers being it would appear much wiser that many today knew what they were doing. IMHO.
    I agree, I'm sure our founding fathers are spinning in their graves right now looking at what we have done to our country. Not just the religious aspect, but the overall consumerism, the selling out of our industries to overseas, banks (and other institutions) screwing over their own fellow Americans just to make a buck. The corruption that calls itself our govt...

    As for the religious background... if it has been written that in the last days there will be a great falling away and the anti-christ will show up; Then wouldn't you and the other followers of that belief embrace the falling away? If this prophecy is true, and it is comming to a head, then wouldn't that mean the rapture is just around the corner as well? All of those who have accepted christ as your savior shall be taken into heaven, and those that have been left behind shall have to suffer through gods wrath? If this is true then wouldn't trying to reinstill a christian religion into our country just delay this process? I would think you would want to get beamed off this planet as fast as possible to start your next phase of afterlife in paradise.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey onlinedad: I will only say this one more time and sign off on this thread so I do not have to deal with you and just allow you to continue to embarrass yourself to others. Your additional quote "our country (who are these "our"?) has let "jews" become empowered". Certainly appreciate you and your friends allowing jews to be part of this country. Perhaps you did not know that jews fought and died in the Revolutionary War and that this country is as much mine as it is yours but I humbly thank you for allowing me, a jew, to live and thrive here among you and the only true Americans.
    PS:I know you said nothing that can be construed as anti-(semetic)----you really do not appreciate that many of your comments, however, were anti-(semitic) and your additional comments only embarrass you to forum members who appreciate and understand what you initially said and your ignorant responses that followed.
    Kelcarry: (if you still happen to be lurking in the shadows)

    I think your missing my point. I was simply trying to state that I think that our country (by "our" country I was referring to those that are legal inhabitants of the United States of America), would be in a completely different situation if a muslim based people were empowered here. We would not be at war with another muslim/arab based country (probably this is all speculatory), and we would probably be attempting another erradication of the jew. If a muslim based people were in the same position as the jewish population (starting from the begining, with the monetary donations throughout history that you are claiming that the jews made), then the U.N. would probably not have seen fit to give Israel to the Israelites. But, becuase things in history have turned out the way that they have this isn't the case.

    Now if you wouldn't mind stop trying to worry about pointing fingers and name calling, and trying to take a discussion down the "he offended me path", maybe we can continue our healthy discussion. As of right now you have not given any positive involvement to this conversation. I appluad HK4U for jumping into this discussion and immediatly posting quotes from historical figures backing his stance of having a christian religion as a backbone to our country (should I breakdown the meaning of our country again?) Also, I have never claimed to be a historical guru, so I am proceding in this discussion with the knowledge and information that I have (or look up), and with what my beliefs are. If I am wrong about a fact that I am stating then proove me wrong with documentation, not childish, tears in your eyes, hurt feeling name calling.

  9. #58
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    Refocus. . .

    While I have been reluctant to jump into this thread, I read through it and feel that the original (and most important) point is being lost. Initially, we started talking about Mr. Graham not being able to speak because it may offend some. This raises 2 huge points (to me). When did offending a small group become more important than comforting a large one. Last time I heard a poll, the country was more Christian than Muslim or atheist (being the groups who would most likely complain). How come no one comes to my defense when I claim to be offended? Is it because I am a member of the 'in' group to denigrate? Secondly, this goes to show how education is lacking. This country was founded as a Christian country. Read the writings from the Founding Fathers. This country came about to give people who were being persecuted a place to express themselves in freedom. They did not try to suppress those who suppressed them as is currently happening here. They left for another country. If you don't like your surroundings, the beautiful thing about America is: You can leave! Find a place where others are like minded and you are comfortable. Please do not force me to fit within your beliefs. I'm not saying you have to leave. You are welcome to stay, this is America. Just don't force me to believe or worship in a way that I don't choose.

  10. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    I agree, I'm sure our founding fathers are spinning in their graves right now looking at what we have done to our country. Not just the religious aspect, but the overall consumerism, the selling out of our industries to overseas, banks (and other institutions) screwing over their own fellow Americans just to make a buck. The corruption that calls itself our govt...

    As for the religious background... if it has been written that in the last days there will be a great falling away and the anti-christ will show up; Then wouldn't you and the other followers of that belief embrace the falling away? If this prophecy is true, and it is comming to a head, then wouldn't that mean the rapture is just around the corner as well? All of those who have accepted christ as your savior shall be taken into heaven, and those that have been left behind shall have to suffer through gods wrath? If this is true then wouldn't trying to reinstill a christian religion into our country just delay this process? I would think you would want to get beamed off this planet as fast as possible to start your next phase of afterlife in paradise.

    When it is God's timing He will come. Nothing I can do will delay it or speed it up He is sovereign. Scripture teaches that being absent from the body and present with the Lord is of course far better than anything this life has to offer however we are to occupy until his return or our death.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Umm... what part do you find offensive? The part that someone else has a different opinion than you? Or the fact that when we first colonized North America, it was to escape religious oppresion from the brittish? Our country was founded on a freedom of religion, not that one religion should outway another.

    My point was that we should have a govt that is run by proovable facts, not by the belief of mythological creatures that there are no factual way to prove the existance of. Just because you close your eyes real tight and wish real hard will not make something come true. Nor should we base the governing of our people on such fantasy. If you want to believe in Santa or the toothfairy, or whatever good for you, go right ahead. Just dont expect everyone else to follow just because you think its right.
    Do I think that our govt should lead by example, and ethically? Of course, but it does not need a religion to do so.

    I am not going to argue with you, it appears you have your hands full enough with the other responses on this thread. I will however say that it is not about what I think is right. It is what this country was founded on, as you have already conceded in another post. The part I find offensive is your attack on what this country was founded on and the foundation of our constitution. To me you are attacking America and I find that very offensife, especially from someone who lives in this country.

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