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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Can anyone here tell me how many times God is mentioned in the Constitution?

    You get bonus points if you can tell me what religion Ben Franklin was a member of?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app
    1. 0, but God and Our Creator had already been established when we declared our independence. I know what you are going for, but check out any US currency you might have, dating back to 1776...
    2. Ben was a Puritan, which is still Christianity.
    Chief

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  3. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Was that a response to GryHounnd? Totally non sequitur........ And no most won't.
    I beg to differ! Speaking of what you believe is quite different than always speaking on what someone else believes that you Don't believe. It is really very clear and easy to see. I think GryHounnd is capable for himself...

    sinful nature is always hostile to God....

  4. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Can anyone here tell me how many times God is mentioned in the Constitution?

    You get bonus points if you can tell me what religion Ben Franklin was a member of?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app
    I find your question interesting and would like to comment on it, not to start a big argument, but to say that religion is mentioned three times in the Constitution. First is in Article VI, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures...........shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution; but no religious Test shall be required......" Obviously, an oath duly sworn would be considered to have been made in a religious context. Second, the First Amendment says that Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The third reference is at the signing on 17 September 1787, "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our Lord...an obvious religious reference. For the sake of argument, one can say the Founding Fathers were religious and expressed it in these few comments, or, one can take those few comments and say they were not religious and meant to omit religious references in the Constitution. Good argument, but not one that will ever be satisfactory to everyone! Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas wrote biographical sketches on the fifty-five delegates at the Constitutional Convention, including their church membership. Three members were said to be Deists, Hugh Williamson of North Carolina, James Wilson of Pennsylvania and Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania. All three were raised in staunch Calvinist homes and each originally studied for the ministry. Franklin being a Deist is questionable since he called for prayer at the Convention and declared "God governs in the affairs of men." In the Deist belief, God does not intervene in the affairs of men. I enjoyed the questions and getting into the Constitution!

  5. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    I find your question interesting and would like to comment on it, not to start a big argument, but to say that religion is mentioned three times in the Constitution. First is in Article VI, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures...........shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution; but no religious Test shall be required......" Obviously, an oath duly sworn would be considered to have been made in a religious context. Second, the First Amendment says that Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The third reference is at the signing on 17 September 1787, "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our Lord...an obvious religious reference. For the sake of argument, one can say the Founding Fathers were religious and expressed it in these few comments, or, one can take those few comments and say they were not religious and meant to omit religious references in the Constitution. Good argument, but not one that will ever be satisfactory to everyone! Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas wrote biographical sketches on the fifty-five delegates at the Constitutional Convention, including their church membership. Three members were said to be Deists, Hugh Williamson of North Carolina, James Wilson of Pennsylvania and Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania. All three were raised in staunch Calvinist homes and each originally studied for the ministry. Franklin being a Deist is questionable since he called for prayer at the Convention and declared "God governs in the affairs of men." In the Deist belief, God does not intervene in the affairs of men. I enjoyed the questions and getting into the Constitution!
    Thanks OG! Inspired me to also read some in the Constitution this 24th day of November 2014th year of the Lord. I also read The Mayflower Compact. I am finding it more interesting than ever to review these insightful documents. Have a good day!

    sinful nature is always hostile to God....

  6. Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post

    You get bonus points if you can tell me what religion Ben Franklin was a member of?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app

    Benjamin Franklin was identified as an Episcopalian by the Library of Congress.
    A Worthy Company: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States Constitution by M. E. Bradford was cited as the source stating he was later a Deist. (Source: Ian Dorion, "Table of the Religious Affiliations of American Founders", 1997).
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  7. Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Can anyone here tell me how many times God is mentioned in the Constitution?
    Immediately after Article VII, the Constitution closes with the following words:


    Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth....

    Did you catch it? Their work was done “in the Year of our Lord.” The Christian world dates all of human history in terms of the birth of Christ. “B.C.” means “before Christ,” and “A.D.” is the abbreviation for the Latin words “anno Domini,” meaning “year of our Lord.” If the Framers were interested in being pluralistic, multi-cultural, and politically correct, they would have refrained from using the B.C./A.D. designation.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  8. #1127
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan45 View Post
    Immediately after Article VII, the Constitution closes with the following words:


    Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth....

    Did you catch it? Their work was done “in the Year of our Lord.” The Christian world dates all of human history in terms of the birth of Christ. “B.C.” means “before Christ,” and “A.D.” is the abbreviation for the Latin words “anno Domini,” meaning “year of our Lord.” If the Framers were interested in being pluralistic, multi-cultural, and politically correct, they would have refrained from using the B.C./A.D. designation.
    That only makes it clear the calendar that is being used was the Gregorian calendar which is often called the western calendar and the christian calendar, and was not a global standard as many countries used different calendars.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  9. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    That only makes it clear the calendar that is being used was the Gregorian calendar which is often called the western calendar and the christian calendar, and was not a global standard as many countries used different calendars.
    Weak reply with no substantive content...
    Chief

  10. Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    That only makes it clear the calendar that is being used was the Gregorian calendar which is often called the western calendar and the christian calendar, and was not a global standard as many countries used different calendars.
    Do they now?
    For all practical purposes the Gregorian calendar is what is used.
    The Hebrew calendar used for religious affairs.
    What Iran and Afghanistan uses does not count. For reason I will not get into.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  11. #1130
    Regarding my question about Ben Franklin's funeral here is an excerpt from a blog I ran across, I am using this source for conenience sake, but have read it elsewhere.

    May 16th, 2012
    Tolerance! Benjamin Franklin’s Defense Against Arrogance!



    Federalist Numbers 4 and 6 quote Madison: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.” A nation of angels would regulate itself. Each angel would be sensitive to the preferences, talents, and capabilities of other angels, while pursuing his or her own. Each angel would be humble—willing (and even anxious) to accommodate the conflicting interests of other angels.

    By most accounts, Ben Franklin was the most practical Founder. From the Revolution through the Constitutional Convention, he advocated tolerance for opinions that differed from his own. Franklin saw tolerance as essential in a diverse society, and he incorporated tolerance into the Constitution: with protections of individual freedom, a limited government with enumerated powers, and allocation of the police power to the States. Franklin created room within the Constitution for disagreement to exist among citizens in the new republic.

    “Tolerant” is defined at Dictionary.com: (2) a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one’s own.

    Tolerance does not require agreement with opinions that differ from one’s own. Tolerance means just the opposite—two individuals respect the opinions of the other, even though they do not agree. Tolerance can only exist where there is disagreement.

    In today’s political discourse, Franklin’s concept of tolerance has gone missing. Factions, and their ambitious leaders, require agreement. Disagreement is to be vanquished, not tolerated. Disagreement is now claimed to prove intolerance, the exact opposite of Franklin’s vision. The most vile names are applied to citizens who do not agree.

    One occurred during the 1787 Constitutional convention, when the rivalry between large and small states threatened to tear the convention apart. Franklin made the motion that would have a House proportioned by population and a Senate with equal votes per state. “When a broad table is to be made, and the edges of planks do not fit, the artist takes a little from both, and makes a good joint,” he said. In this instance, Franklin found a principled compromise through which each group could be tolerant of the views of the other.

    The second story spans fifty years. “During his lifetime, Benjamin Franklin donated to the building fund of each and every church built in Philadelphia. And at one point, when a new hall was being built to accommodate itinerate preachers, Franklin wrote the fund-raising document and urged citizens to be tolerant enough so ‘that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.’ And on his deathbed, he was the largest individual contributor to the building fund for Mikveh Israel, the first synagogue in Philadelphia. So when he died, twenty thousand of his fellow citizens came out to march in his funeral procession, which was led by ministers, preachers, and priests of every faith as well as the rabbi of the Jews.”

    Can Franklin’s example lead us back to the Founders’ vision of a tolerant society? Franklin’s tolerant society—the republic established by the 1789 Constitution—was reluctant to use the coercive power of government to impose the opinions of one group upon another. Since the British first blockaded Boston after the Boston Tea Party, Americans have resisted the coercive power of government to impose the opinions of one group upon another, preferring instead the power of critical and independent thought.

    Can those among us who prefer more government find sufficient humility to tolerate the differing opinions of others among us who prefer less government?

    With malice toward none, and charity for all.

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