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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #1131
    With regards to God being specifically mentioned in the constitution, it occured exactly 1 time to denote the year. However anyone who tries to cite that as proof that we were founded as a christian nation is really stretching in my opinion. The term Anno Domini has been standard nomenclature on the Gregorian Calendar and is more of a testament to the fact that the western calendar was created by a pope who saw Christ's death as the defining moment in history than anything else.

    I find it much more intriguing that our founding fathers mentioned religion 3 times in the Constitution all in a prohibitive manner. In other words they banned religious tests for those taking public offices up to and including saying "So help me God" in the oath of office. The other one is of course the first amendment and the prohibition against making any law with regards to religion. This of course has led to the doctrine of separation of church and state.

    One of the things that disturbs me most is when I see states like Louisiana trying to make the Bible the "Official State Book". It bothers me because the state legislator who proposed it apparently has never read the constitution. It also bothers me because he also I am positive that hasn't actually thought through the ramifications of what he is proposing. I'm pretty sure he never thought which version of the bible The state would endorse. Would it endorse the protestant bible which was edited together arountld 1500 to make it line up with the standard Jewish torah? Would the state endorse the Catholic/Orthodox Bible which includes the older septuigent version of the jewish old testament? That particular version of the Bible contains several books that were edited out of the protestant old testament? Or would they endorse the Jefferson Bible which edited out all reference to miracles? Or would the endorse the book of mormon?

    These are questions that I am sure most chrisitian fundamentalists rarely think about or are prepared to answer when they assert we are a christian nation. Nor are they prepared to answer the question of which version of christianity is the correct one. In their hearts they probably would say their denomination is the correct one.

    Of course its not like other parts of the world are fighting over which version of their religion is the correct interpretation. I mean come on, the ISIS version of islam is the only correct one. Its not like christians have ever killed each other over the same argument.

  2.   
  3. #1132
    As I said in my last post (Nr. 1123), "For the sake of argument, one can say the Founding Fathers were religious and expressed it in these few comments, or, one can take those few comments and say they were not religious and meant to omit religious references in the
    Constitution." That is exactly what has happened but, all in all, the original question has caused a lot of people to read!

  4. #1133
    Old Grunt,

    For the most part I would agree with u. Just thought I'd put in my $.02

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using USA Carry mobile app

  5. #1134
    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Can anyone here tell me how many times God is mentioned in the Constitution?

    You get bonus points if you can tell me what religion Ben Franklin was a member of?
    Franklin quotes on religion:
    "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

    "My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan]way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. [Robert Boyle (1627-1691) was a British physicist who endowed the Boyle Lectures for defense of Christianity.]It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist"

    "How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep holidays than commandments."

    "Revealed religion has no weight with me."

    "Indeed, when religious people quarrel about religion, or hungry people quarrel about victuals, it looks as if they had not much of either among them."

    Or said about him;
    "It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" [Priestley's Autobiography, p. 60, on Benjamin Franklin]
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  6. #1135
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    Communist keep trying but it's still a Christian Nation

    [QUOTE=XD40scinNC;547878]Franklin quotes on religion:[INDENT]"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

    "My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan]way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. [Robert Boyle (1627-1691) was a British physicist who endowed the Boyle Lectures for defense of Christianity.]It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist"

    It was asked how many times God was mentioned in the Constitution and what was Ben Franklin's religious belief.

    Let’s start here:

    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776


    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America


    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. (This is not a guarantee it is just the opportunity, individual effort is required)

    Then we will end it here:

    Where Anyone including Obama or any of his non-Christian Communist friends are prohibited from allowing the free exercise of our faith whether it be paying for their abortions or placing a cross in a public location where the majority of Americans agree it should be. Because we are a Christian Nation Americans use the Bible for all oaths in Court or in the oath to protect the Constitution of the United State by all State and Federal Government Offices. The reason many Court Houses display the ten commandment is because the 10 Commandments were used to establish American laws, because America is and always has been a Christian Nation.

    Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, 12/15/1791.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

    And by the way a for Ben Franklin's view on religion:

    Ezra Stiles (1727–1795), the Calvinist president of Yale College, was curious about Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790) and his faith.
    In 1790, he asked the nation's senior statesman if he would commit his religious beliefs to paper.
    Franklin agreed. He was nearing the end of his life - he died six weeks later - and possibly believed this was as good a time as any to summarize the religious creed by which he lived.
    "Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble."
    The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior.
    Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God.
    “Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

  7. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    It was asked how many times God was mentioned in the Constitution and what was Ben Franklin's religious belief.

    Let’s start here:

    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776


    [B]The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
    ...
    Debray, please pay attention or you look like a dork. You have just answered a question about the Constitution with quotes from the Declaration of Independence. Your other part about what he said to or wrote for Ezra Stiles would be pertinent, if you added a link so we could trust that source. I have never seen that before, hence I don't necessarily believe it just because you put dates and quotation marks there.
    Chief

  8. #1137
    Well, I would say that Christianity is the predominant religion in America, but as far as the nation goes it's supposed to be one where all faiths, races, etc. are welcome. Just because the founding fathers said or wrote God doesn't necessarily mean "Christian" as people of All faiths believe in the "One True God". Hinduism is a fun one to look at because they have a hundred or so 'gods' but they're all manifestations of the One True God.

    The reason many Court Houses display the ten commandment is because the 10 Commandments were used to establish American laws, because America is and always has been a Christian Nation.
    And I would point out here that The ten commandments are from the Old Testament - which would make us more Jewish than Christian. Christianity didn't start till the New Testament and is about forgiveness for sin, whereas under the ten commandments we are still punished for our sins. In addition, Muslims believe in Moses' laws as do pretty much all other religions... even though the practitioners don't always do a very good job of keeping them.

  9. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by indyyy View Post
    Well, I would say that Christianity is the predominant religion in America, but as far as the nation goes it's supposed to be one where all faiths, races, etc. are welcome. Just because the founding fathers said or wrote God doesn't necessarily mean "Christian" as people of All faiths believe in the "One True God". Hinduism is a fun one to look at because they have a hundred or so 'gods' but they're all manifestations of the One True God.



    And I would point out here that The ten commandments are from the Old Testament - which would make us more Jewish than Christian. Christianity didn't start till the New Testament and is about forgiveness for sin, whereas under the ten commandments we are still punished for our sins. In addition, Muslims believe in Moses' laws as do pretty much all other religions... even though the practitioners don't always do a very good job of keeping them.
    I find it interesting that Christian Fundamentalists insist on putting the 10 commandments in government buildings, but they usually specify the first set God Had Moses destroy. The original Moses destroyed were in
    EX 20:1-17 are as follows, this is the one most people know.

    And God spoke all these words:

    2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

    3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

    4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

    7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

    8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

    13 “You shall not murder.

    14 “You shall not commit adultery.

    15 “You shall not steal.

    16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

    17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”



    Their replacements, which no one seems to talk about are found in Ex. 34:14 - 26

    "You shall not worship any other god, for the Lord is the jealous one.

    You shall not make for yourself molten gods.

    You shall keep the feast of Unleavened bread.

    To me belongs every first born male that opens the womb of all your livestock...

    No one shall appear before me empty-handed.

    For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you shall rest.

    You shall keep the feast of weeks with the first of the wheat harvest: likewise with the feast of the fruit harvest at the close of the year.

    You shall not offer me the blood sacrifice with leavened bread...

    The choicest first fruits of your soil you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God.

    You shall not boil a kid in it's mother's milk."

    What gives huh? Why do they acknowledge one but not the other?

  10. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    With regards to God being specifically mentioned in the constitution, it occured exactly 1 time to denote the year. However anyone who tries to cite that as proof that we were founded as a christian nation is really stretching in my opinion.
    America was founded by those seeking refuge from religious persecution. It's simply historical fact.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    America was founded by those seeking refuge from religious persecution. It's simply historical fact.
    And knowing from first-hand experience that religion becomes even more malignant when it's part of government, they took pains to separate the two--to ensure that this new nation may well be full of christians (today a rapidly declining segment of American society even though you wouldn't know it from all the noise they make in an attempt to mask their accelerating irrelevancy) but that their government, and therefore the nation, would not be.

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