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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #1141
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    America was founded by those seeking refuge from religious persecution. It's simply historical fact.
    There is a vast difference between the various historical groups fleeing persecution in the old world, and creating a government that did not pick favorites with regards to religion. Depending on where they came from, you had Calvanists, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Puritans, Quakers, Shakers, Unitarians, & Jews amongst many others. Each one of those denominations all KNEW the way they worshiped God and ran their societies were the right way to do it. Our founding fathers were members of most if not all those denominations. They were smart enough to know that they couldn't agree on the best way to worship God because they all came from places where someone was trying to tell them how to do that exact thing. Today's Republican religious zealots either don't get it or they're just too stupid to remember that lesson.

    The reason that I (I won't speak for all democrats) don't want hyper religious politicians spouting their often fundamentalist garbage down my throat is because I JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. To worship my God in my way, to teach my children the values I know are important, and to make sure they learn how to be scientifically literate. I don't give a damn about your views of how the earth was created in seven literal days because your interpretation of the bible says so, how God finds every sperm to be sacred, or how he controls destiny so global warming isn't possibly real. I want to be left alone, and if I HAVE to have a conversation about those last 2 things, I want to have a rational, data driven discussion about policy and laws, not be shown chapter and verse from your Bible, it has no place in a data driven discussion. The Bible, which while it is a wonderful book, is not suitable for being the total basis for our laws and regulations.

    If the immoral minority wants to play at being a christian in their media vacuum, where the Bible was the only book worth being produced, fine! Don't shove it down my throat as the basis for all the laws I have to follow. Since no one can consistently agree on how to interpret it's meaning leave the Bible alone as a book of worship. Don't treat it as a text book, they go out of date FAST, you do it no favors by treating it like one. This country was not founded as a theocracy. If you want to live under that type of government, go to Iran or contact the Islamic State, I'm sure they'd love to have you....once they MAKE you come around to their way of thinking.

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  3. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosreme View Post
    And knowing from first-hand experience that religion becomes even more malignant when it's part of government, they took pains to separate the two--to ensure that this new nation may well be full of christians (today a rapidly declining segment of American society even though you wouldn't know it from all the noise they make in an attempt to mask their accelerating irrelevancy) but that their government, and therefore the nation, would not be.
    Not so much that they took pains to separate the two. Rather they took pains to ensure government would not respect one religion over another. Separation of church and state is not guaranteed by the constitution.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #1143
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    There is a vast difference between the various historical groups fleeing persecution in the old world, and creating a government that did not pick favorites with regards to religion. Depending on where they came from, you had Calvanists, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Puritans, Quakers, Shakers, Unitarians, & Jews amongst many others. Each one of those denominations all KNEW the way they worshiped God and ran their societies were the right way to do it. Our founding fathers were members of most if not all those denominations. They were smart enough to know that they couldn't agree on the best way to worship God because they all came from places where someone was trying to tell them how to do that exact thing. Today's Republican religious zealots either don't get it or they're just too stupid to remember that lesson.

    The reason that I (I won't speak for all democrats) don't want hyper religious politicians spouting their often fundamentalist garbage down my throat is because I JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. To worship my God in my way, to teach my children the values I know are important, and to make sure they learn how to be scientifically literate. I don't give a damn about your views of how the earth was created in seven literal days because your interpretation of the bible says so, how God finds every fkn sperm to be sacred, or how he controls destiny so global warming isn't possibly real. I want to be left alone, and if I HAVE to have a conversation about those last 2 things, I want to have a rational, data driven discussion about policy and laws, not be shown chapter and verse from your Bible, it has no place in a data driven discussion. The Bible, which while it is a wonderful book, is not suitable for being the total basis for our laws and regulations.

    If the immoral minority wants to play at being a christian in their media vacuum, where the Bible was the only book worth being produced, fine! Don't shove it down my throat as the basis for all the laws I have to follow. Since no one can consistently agree on how to interpret it's meaning leave the Bible alone as a book of worship. Don't treat it as a text book, they go out of date FAST, you do it no favors by treating it like one. This country was not founded as a theocracy. If you want to live under that type of government, go to fckn Iran or contact the Islamic State, I'm sure they'd love to have you....once they MAKE you come around to their way of thinking.
    Please don't use "God" and fu---ing in the same sentence. You're insulting believers in a religious thread. If you want to curse God start an atheist thread. Very bad taste.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Not so much that they took pains to separate the two. Rather they took pains to ensure government would not respect one religion over another. Separation of church and state is not guaranteed by the constitution.
    If separation of church and state is not guaranteed, then conservatives should have no problem with birth control being required for all Obamacare health plans. After all, religious objections shouldn't have any bearing, separation of church and state are not guarnteed. You can't have it both ways. You either support Congress not making laws that impact your religious beliefs, or you don't.

  6. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Was that a response to GryHounnd? Totally non sequitur........ And no most won't.
    But they will over at Defensive Carry!
    Head on over and check it out!

    America is a Christian Nation-imageuploadedbytapatalk1417029867.058951.jpg

  7. #1146
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Please don't use "God" and fu---ing in the same sentence. You're insulting believers in a religious thread. If you want to curse God start an atheist thread. Very bad taste.
    America is a Christian Nation-sfry.jpg

  8. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    If separation of church and state is not guaranteed, then conservatives should have no problem with birth control being required for all Obamacare health plans. After all, religious objections shouldn't have any bearing, separation of church and state are not guarnteed. You can't have it both ways. You either support Congress not making laws that impact your religious beliefs, or you don't.
    Wrong on so many levels. Hobby Lobby had no problem with birth control. Their medical coverage provided birth control. Morning after pills are not birth control, they are an "oops I forgot to use birth control" pill. Simple without even being scientific about it. Abortion on the other hand IS a religious issue, as well as a moral issue and a medical issue. You want to talk about hypocrisy, then explain how if stealing my guns can save one child it is worth it, but the same does not apply to abortion?
    Chief

  9. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Wrong on so many levels. Hobby Lobby had no problem with birth control. Their medical coverage provided birth control. Morning after pills are not birth control, they are an "oops I forgot to use birth control" pill. Simple without even being scientific about it. Abortion on the other hand IS a religious issue, as well as a moral issue and a medical issue. You want to talk about hypocrisy, then explain how if stealing my guns can save one child it is worth it, but the same does not apply to abortion?

    The entire case was about birth control, or more properly just control of certain people. Hobby Lobby wasn't the only plaintiff listed in the suit & some of the plaintiffs in the case objected to ALL forms of birth control. Did you know that Hobby Lobby actually offered coverage for the very devices they objected to in their healthcare plans right up until the year they filed their lawsuit? Where was their moraility and religious objection then? They didn't want to include certain forms of it in their health plan including the morning after pill and IUD's. They deliberately and falsely conflated those forms of birth control with abortion. The morning after pill is not abortion, it is a shot of hormones that prevents an egg, fertilized or not, from embedding in the uterus. So yes, it is birth control in the same vein as normal birth control, simply in a more concentrated form to be used to prevent an unwanted pregnancy in an emergency. In addition, Hobby Lobby also objected to certain IUDs which are clearly classified as birth control, prevent pregnancy, and cannot be classified as a form of abortion by any stretch of the imagination. Hobby Lobby was about birth control, not abortion procedures. Furthermore, the ENTIRE basis for their victory in the Hobby Lobby case was their objection on 1st amendment religious grounds, PERIOD!!!! You can't have it both ways, you can't say we are a Christian Nation, we were founded on godly principals, we want laws and institutions that reflect that, and then in the same breath argue that Hobby Lobby was not about religious freedom. It is entirely based on that .

    I don't and won't make any argument about taking your guns to protect children, unless of course your a convicted criminal dirtbag and a threat to society. Then by all means I hope that they take every firearm you own, then snag your A$$ and throw it in a deep hole and promptly forget about you. As for the morality of the issue. Where is the morality in fighting to save an unwanted child, while screaming all the time about taking responsibility, and then preventing an individual from doing exactly that because you think it encourages promiscuity? Where is the morality in preventing someone from taking responsibility for their actions by preventing the situation of an unwanted pregnancy in the first place? You tell me where the morality is in imposing your religious predisposition on someone else because it might offend you?

  10. #1149
    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    With regards to God being specifically mentioned in the constitution, it occured exactly 1 time to denote the year. However anyone who tries to cite that as proof that we were founded as a christian nation is really stretching in my opinion. The term Anno Domini has been standard nomenclature on the Gregorian Calendar and is more of a testament to the fact that the western calendar was created by a pope who saw Christ's death as the defining moment in history than anything else.
    It is just a statement of which measure was used, no different than the tag in you shoes that specifies the size by country, simply to eliminate confusion between the different methods of measure, be it shoe size or date.

    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    I find it much more intriguing that our founding fathers mentioned religion 3 times in the Constitution all in a prohibitive manner. In other words they banned religious tests for those taking public offices up to and including saying "So help me God" in the oath of office. The other one is of course the first amendment and the prohibition against making any law with regards to religion. This of course has led to the doctrine of separation of church and state.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    These are questions that I am sure most chrisitian fundamentalists rarely think about or are prepared to answer when they assert we are a christian nation. Nor are they prepared to answer the question of which version of christianity is the correct one. In their hearts they probably would say their denomination is the correct one.
    To most christians the bible is like a software license, scroll to the bottom and click accept without any understanding, or even reading it.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Please don't use "God" and fu---ing in the same sentence. You're insulting believers in a religious thread. If you want to curse God start an atheist thread. Very bad taste.
    Who are you to judge, after all doesn't the christian dogma tell christians not to judge, that ain't their job, but their gods special privilege?
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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