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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #171
    Lets use this analogy...

    Is America a Baseball nation? Well it used to be... until America became a little more diversified, and tolerant of other sports.. So now we are a country of baseball, football, hockey, basketball, bowling, badminton, volleyball, golf, etc...

    we could use the argument of: we used to be a baseball nation (just look at our forefathers...), but ever since we turned our backs on the greatness of baseball our country has turned into a bunch of godless heathens.. Look at football fans, drinking and fighting in the stands... Our country will continue to go down hill, until we go back and re-embrace baseball and the love that it teaches.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Lets use this analogy...

    Is America a Baseball nation? Well it used to be... until America became a little more diversified, and tolerant of other sports.. So now we are a country of baseball, football, hockey, basketball, bowling, badminton, volleyball, golf, etc...

    we could use the argument of: we used to be a baseball nation (just look at our forefathers...), but ever since we turned our backs on the greatness of baseball our country has turned into a bunch of godless heathens.. Look at football fans, drinking and fighting in the stands... Our country will continue to go down hill, until we go back and re-embrace baseball and the love that it teaches.
    Saying America was not founded as a Christian nation is like saying Utah was not founded as a Mormon territory and by the way, it still is. Not much sense trying to convince those that will not be convinced. Please believe as you wish.

    Cheers,

  4. #173
    I think the crux of this 18 page thread is how you define the terms, but hey, it's a good thing for folks to get stuff like this out! And once you define the terms, people tend to get offended, but this is how most things work today including politics, religion, and even research studies. The term "Christian Nation" can be as vague and ambiguous as "Global Warming," depending on the context in which it is used.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    I think the crux of this 18 page thread is how you define the terms, but hey, it's a good thing for folks to get stuff like this out! And once you define the terms, people tend to get offended, but this is how most things work today including politics, religion, and even research studies. The term "Christian Nation" can be as vague and ambiguous as "Global Warming," depending on the context in which it is used.
    Dear Father of Three, I am not sure that we are going to get any further than agreeing to disagree, but I would not call it vague to say that Mecca is an Islamic city and that Rome and Belfast are Catholic, Dublin is Protestant and that Israel is Jewish. How did I define that? Perhaps many ways to do so, but the old stand by of pornography was you know it when you see it. Now it seems that we arguing the same sort of argument on whether the Pope is Jewish? Obviously the Pope is Catholic to any unbiased observer. So likewise, all you have to do is to look at our historical documents and see that we were indeed founded as a Christian nation and at some point in time we have strayed from that path but our basic heritage with deep roots is Christian in nature just as any of the other locations qualify for their religious base as listed taking into account historical roots.

    If you don't agree, then I will leave it for others to dispute this specific issue further.

    Thank you all for the interesting debate, I will follow along to see if any thing of interest develops again.

    Cheers,

  6. #175
    It's the difference between being cautious and aware,
    And being just plain scared of the things that go 'Bump' in the night!

    We have a large family farm, we've had pot growers sneak in and plant their version of a 'Cash Crop'...
    So far, it's been locals that wouldn't dream of setting fish hook & razor blade snares or spring loaded jaw traps...
    That's good for us, all they loose is seeds and all we loose is some crop when the police pound through the crops to get to the weed...

    Not too far from here, around the state forests, they have people setting traps.
    Fish hooks with razor blades, steel jaw traps, ect.

    I DO carry an AR when I'm down in the back end of the river bottoms, but mostly for the opportunity to pound a coyote or ground hog when they present themselves.

    This is the difference,
    Out 'Growers' pick the very best farm land, creek and river bottom land that is so rich you could plant a rock and grow castles!
    That means they are local farm kids that want to have a little fun, but don't want to hurt their friends and neighbors.

    City dwellers that would do something like putting out traps wouldn't know where the best farm land was,
    How to get in and out without hammering down the crops in the fields,
    And don't care about the locals at all...

    What we have the biggest problem with is 'Crank' or 'Meth' guys cooking out in the bottoms and leaving their toxic trash behind.
    They DO carry guns and are by definition 'Paranoid', and if they have been on that poison very long, they are crazy to boot.

    They are the guys I don't want to run into while I'm out there checking fences, checking on livestock, checking growing conditions, ect.

    I don't pretend that I'm law enforcement,
    When I run into someone, I take pictures with cell phone and call the pics into the local cop shop and let them handle it.
    Tree cameras are very useful to us, we can get pictures of every person and plate number that rolls through our fence lines.

    IF they are just hunting mushrooms, going to fish, or taking a dirt road drive down by the river, we usually don't say much even though they are 'Trespassing'....

    It's the twitchy, wild eyed ammonia thieves that really get us going!
    Nothing like a guy trying to steal 5 gallons of ammonia and letting 1,400 gallons loose in the atmosphere!

    There is trash from their meth labs, dumped garbage/trash/construction materials/fridges/freezers/old tires everywhere, which we have to pay to have properly disposed of...
    And corn/soybeans/wheat isn't paying enough to constantly keep cleaning up all the time after these type of people!

    Costs $2 per tire to get rid of them responsibly,
    Costs $15 per fridge or freezer, and you can't tell me they aren't spending that much in gas and bolt cutters to get into our fields!

    Anyway, I'm sorry for the guy that got shot,
    My sympathy goes out to his family and community,

    But harassing mothers picking up kids from school,
    Detaining school age children harassing them for state issued ID to prove they are 'Citizens' isn't stopping the problem.

    I bet most of you don't carry THREE government issued picture IDs with you at all times...
    Most of you only carry a drivers license, and they don't accept things like Social Security cards since they don't have pictures.

    Since I travel in the southwest quite often, I've taken to carrying my Passport, My drivers license, and my old military ID Card since all have a picture...
    I know it's stupid that a Caucasian should have to do that, but that is the only way I can think of to keep my butt going down the road where it's supposed to be instead of detained in some ICE or county jail waiting for my fingerprints to come back and confirm I'm a US Citizen.

    You all want to declare this is a 'Cristian Nation', why not start with a little 'Christian Charity' and give people a chance, the benefit of a doubt instead of having these knee-jerk reactions to isolated problems?
    It isn't just the border states with 'Issues' concerning drugs, illegals, ect....

  7. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
    It's the difference between being cautious and aware,
    And being just plain scared of the things that go 'Bump' in the night!

    We have a large family farm, we've had pot growers sneak in and plant their version of a 'Cash Crop'...
    So far, it's been locals that wouldn't dream of setting fish hook & razor blade snares or spring loaded jaw traps...
    That's good for us, all they loose is seeds and all we loose is some crop when the police pound through the crops to get to the weed...

    Not too far from here, around the state forests, they have people setting traps.
    Fish hooks with razor blades, steel jaw traps, ect.

    I DO carry an AR when I'm down in the back end of the river bottoms, but mostly for the opportunity to pound a coyote or ground hog when they present themselves.

    This is the difference,
    Out 'Growers' pick the very best farm land, creek and river bottom land that is so rich you could plant a rock and grow castles!
    That means they are local farm kids that want to have a little fun, but don't want to hurt their friends and neighbors.

    City dwellers that would do something like putting out traps wouldn't know where the best farm land was,
    How to get in and out without hammering down the crops in the fields,
    And don't care about the locals at all...

    What we have the biggest problem with is 'Crank' or 'Meth' guys cooking out in the bottoms and leaving their toxic trash behind.
    They DO carry guns and are by definition 'Paranoid', and if they have been on that poison very long, they are crazy to boot.

    They are the guys I don't want to run into while I'm out there checking fences, checking on livestock, checking growing conditions, ect.

    I don't pretend that I'm law enforcement,
    When I run into someone, I take pictures with cell phone and call the pics into the local cop shop and let them handle it.
    Tree cameras are very useful to us, we can get pictures of every person and plate number that rolls through our fence lines.

    IF they are just hunting mushrooms, going to fish, or taking a dirt road drive down by the river, we usually don't say much even though they are 'Trespassing'....

    It's the twitchy, wild eyed ammonia thieves that really get us going!
    Nothing like a guy trying to steal 5 gallons of ammonia and letting 1,400 gallons loose in the atmosphere!

    There is trash from their meth labs, dumped garbage/trash/construction materials/fridges/freezers/old tires everywhere, which we have to pay to have properly disposed of...
    And corn/soybeans/wheat isn't paying enough to constantly keep cleaning up all the time after these type of people!

    Costs $2 per tire to get rid of them responsibly,
    Costs $15 per fridge or freezer, and you can't tell me they aren't spending that much in gas and bolt cutters to get into our fields!

    Anyway, I'm sorry for the guy that got shot,
    My sympathy goes out to his family and community,

    But harassing mothers picking up kids from school,
    Detaining school age children harassing them for state issued ID to prove they are 'Citizens' isn't stopping the problem.

    I bet most of you don't carry THREE government issued picture IDs with you at all times...
    Most of you only carry a drivers license, and they don't accept things like Social Security cards since they don't have pictures.

    Since I travel in the southwest quite often, I've taken to carrying my Passport, My drivers license, and my old military ID Card since all have a picture...
    I know it's stupid that a Caucasian should have to do that, but that is the only way I can think of to keep my butt going down the road where it's supposed to be instead of detained in some ICE or county jail waiting for my fingerprints to come back and confirm I'm a US Citizen.

    You all want to declare this is a 'Cristian Nation', why not start with a little 'Christian Charity' and give people a chance, the benefit of a doubt instead of having these knee-jerk reactions to isolated problems?
    It isn't just the border states with 'Issues' concerning drugs, illegals, ect....
    We could do anything in the name of "Christian charity" but allowing a flood of illegals to continue to pour into the country isn't one of them, IMO. They want to come legally and pursue the "American dream", I"ll welcome them with open arms. Otherwise, not.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  8. #177

    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Lets use this analogy...

    Is America a Baseball nation? Well it used to be... until America became a little more diversified, and tolerant of other sports.. So now we are a country of baseball, football, hockey, basketball, bowling, badminton, volleyball, golf, etc...

    we could use the argument of: we used to be a baseball nation (just look at our forefathers...), but ever since we turned our backs on the greatness of baseball our country has turned into a bunch of godless heathens.. Look at football fans, drinking and fighting in the stands... Our country will continue to go down hill, until we go back and re-embrace baseball and the love that it teaches.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Saying America was not founded as a Christian nation is like saying Utah was not founded as a Mormon territory and by the way, it still is. Not much sense trying to convince those that will not be convinced. Please believe as you wish.

    Cheers,
    I think you missed my point on this. I wasn't saying America was not founded as a christian nation, just that no matter what it was founded on (baseball was my example), over time, because of the dynamics and diversity that makes up this nation, many different religions have worked their way into the communities. Some newer than others, and most if not all have a magic book that they all believe is the *truth* and the absolute word of their own deity, (although they are all written, edited and interpreted by man, and yes even the words written in the red ink). And all of the faiths/religions believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

    Then there those of us that have evolved. And as such we now have science, and logical thinking to proove some/most of the workings of our natural universe, and we no longer need superstitious belief systems to explain the things we did/do not understand. Nor do we find the need for the guilt for not believing.

    So, the short answer is I dont think we are a christian nation (*anymore*), nor do we need to be.

  9. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    I think you missed my point on this. I wasn't saying America was not founded as a christian nation, just that no matter what it was founded on (baseball was my example), over time, because of the dynamics and diversity that makes up this nation, many different religions have worked their way into the communities. Some newer than others, and most if not all have a magic book that they all believe is the *truth* and the absolute word of their own deity, (although they are all written, edited and interpreted by man, and yes even the words written in the red ink). And all of the faiths/religions believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

    Then there those of us that have evolved. And as such we now have science, and logical thinking to proove some/most of the workings of our natural universe, and we no longer need superstitious belief systems to explain the things we did/do not understand. Nor do we find the need for the guilt for not believing.

    So, the short answer is I dont think we are a christian nation (*anymore*), nor do we need to be.
    I cannot disagree that we are no longer a Christian nation, although that is the tradition (and roots) of our country. I will draw issue with the statement that "there are those of us that have evolved" and "now have science". Do you mean to infer that no scientists are Christian?
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  10. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Do you mean to imply that no scientists are Christian?
    Nope, just trying to say that before there was the scientific method to proove/test different occurances in nature, that people turned to religion for answers to questions that they did not know. Now however we have made amazing advances in technology and science (and stopped persecuting the scientists *ahem* religious fanatics strike again), that have helped to solve many of natures riddles. So, now we no longer have to just push the "I believe" button, and think that everytime the sun comes up, or when it rains its a miracle. Or when a city floods, its not the wrath of god, its simply that a levy broke, and if not for the levys in the first place that whole area would be underwater or swamp lands anyway.

  11. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    I cannot disagree that we are no longer a Christian nation, although that is the tradition (and roots) of our country. I will draw issue with the statement that "there are those of us that have evolved" and "now have science". Do you mean to infer that no scientists are Christian?
    Science simply confirms what the Bible has already confirmed thousands of years before science, was science. The simple single cell which is the basic foundation and "building block" of DNA contains more information than can be stored in all of the books a library can stock on it's shelves. When you know anything at all about DNA, even to consider Evolution a "theory" is absurd. You'll never convince an evolutionist that their belief is totally bogus and foolish anymore than you can convince them of the truth of the Bible. They choose to believe in Evolution because they fear the truth of the Bible. Why? Because by believing in Evolution, regardless of how scientifically proven absurd, they feel safe to live their lives as they choose without fear of guilt, judgment, and eternal damnation, as revealed in the Bible. LIFE..Choices & Consequences. Truth.. there is only ONE TRUTH, and it isn't Evolution.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

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