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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Never said mine was better, never even mentioned what mine was. Just looking for some proof as to why you believe in yours.

    So, yours is better because god sent someone to die... or that is how the story goes anyway. How do you know that this is a fact based story? Do you have any other proof to support this story? Because, I have read many of stories. Some with monsters, some with zombies, some that rhyme, some that have pictures. This doesnt make them true.


    I would suggest a couple of books. They have been around for awhile. They are Evidence That Demands A Verdict and More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Both by Josh McDowell. He was a non believer in college that set out to prove Christianity false and after doing a great deal of research came to believe that the Bible was true and thous became a Christian. As far a proving the Bible to be true although there is much evidence to validate it, it still comes down to faith. Scripture says that "Without faith it is impossible to please him(G0d) because he that comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarded of them that diligently seeks him". As far as proof goes The whole universe is proof. We could not exist if everything was not perfect. The world spins a little faster or a little slower,earth a little closer or a little farther away etc and life would not exist. I believe it is far more plausible that a supreme being created all this than some type of accidental/spontaneous explosion brought everything into being in just the right proportions to sustain life. Then again I do not believe either that an explosion in a junk yard will bring forth a perfect car.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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  3. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I would suggest a couple of books. They have been around for awhile. They are Evidence That Demands A Verdict and More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Both by Josh McDowell. He was a non believer in college that set out to prove Christianity false and after doing a great deal of research came to believe that the Bible was true and thous became a Christian. As far a proving the Bible to be true although there is much evidence to validate it, it still comes down to faith. Scripture says that "Without faith it is impossible to please him(G0d) because he that comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarded of them that diligently seeks him". As far as proof goes The whole universe is proof. We could not exist if everything was not perfect. The world spins a little faster or a little slower,earth a little closer or a little farther away etc and life would not exist. I believe it is far more plausible that a supreme being created all this than some type of accidental/spontaneous explosion brought everything into being in just the right proportions to sustain life. Then again I do not believe either that an explosion in a junk yard will bring forth a perfect car.
    Hear, hear!!
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    I was hoping that you could present factual evidence that could be seen and handled, and undisputed by all. I request that you dont use the bible, because that seems to be your ONLY source. AND that every other religion also has a holy book that they follow. Some even use the same bible/version as you do.

    Which leads to the next question, why do you think that yours is better than anyone elses? All of the other religions have some sort of holy book that was passed down to them by some prophet/cleric/etc that exclusively heard the words of their deity. Also, every holy book has been written by a human (which we have already have discussed how humans are easily susceptibleto greed and cooruption). Also, every holy book has been edited by a human. Part I'm sure have been left out, or added in an attempt to satisfy whomever was in charge at that time. (King James bible, edited down to please king james...).

    Now, I'm guessing that the argument will turn to personal expierience. Prayer. "I pray and got an answer from god" hmmm, sounds alot like "I meditate and recieved enlightenment", or "the little voices inside my head told me to do it". Dear Alaska, you have made mention many times of your medical degrees (which are impressive, and congrats on your accomplishments), so you should know that as humans we only use a very small percentage of our brains and the power that they have the potential for. Isn't it possible that a person could convince himself/herself so completely of something that their mind will make things up just to satisfy the demand? Isn't this how athletes/soldiers fight through pain? This occurance could also explain why people that have lost a limb still have phantom pains in the missing limb. So couldn't this same line of thought be applied to a belief system as well? You hope and wish so hard to hear from god, that your mind will answer for you. You could take natural occurances that you come across and misinterprit them as signs or miracles?
    Dear Onlinedad, thank you for the very polite and well thought out question. I truly understand not understanding the spiritual nature of the Bible or what being born again is all about. Let me make a quick point and then we can perhaps lay out a framework for where we can go with this further discussion. The ONLY reason that I mentioned my MD is in connection with our earlier but very brief references to evolution. Many often accuse Christians of being superstitious and even ignorant and that is why we believe. Not true at all. I was convinced of the truth through the study of the Bible. You ask me for more, and I have to confess, that the Bible alone is sufficient all by itself. Read it and question God person to person. When God shows up personally in your life answering your innermost doubts that you may have not even verbalized to any other person, you will know that God is real and answers those with unmitigated proof when we search for Him with all of our heart.

    Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

    This is a personal promise of God. To find Him, you must search for Him. The best place to do that is from the Bible alone. It is and always has been and always will be sufficient all alone. When you finally realize that the Bible is actually what it says it is, then you will no longer in error believe it is simply a book written by fallible men.

    Now, since you do not at this time accept the Bible as a stand alone authority, there are many places we can go. I have actually already mentioned some of them. So for the sake of brevity, lets look at two:

    1) Israel
    2) The Flood

    Israel's story is that of Bible prophecy and history. One of the best proofs of the truth of the Bible is the fact that Israel and its people still exist. If you wish to discuss this, then that is one of the excellent proofs of the Bible.

    Secondly, the scoffers of the Bible deny the abundant scientific evidence of the world wide flood. If you wish to go here, so be it. Much can be said about this as well as with the Creation as well.

    Evidence you say, it is all around us my friend if you are able to take the blinders away from what you have been brainwashed your entire life. So, tell me where you want to go, or give me another totally different subject that you feel proves the Bible wrong. You choose my friend.

    God bless,

  5. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I would suggest a couple of books. They have been around for awhile. They are Evidence That Demands A Verdict and More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Both by Josh McDowell. He was a non believer in college that set out to prove Christianity false and after doing a great deal of research came to believe that the Bible was true and thous became a Christian. As far a proving the Bible to be true although there is much evidence to validate it, it still comes down to faith. Scripture says that "Without faith it is impossible to please him(G0d) because he that comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarded of them that diligently seeks him". As far as proof goes The whole universe is proof. We could not exist if everything was not perfect. The world spins a little faster or a little slower,earth a little closer or a little farther away etc and life would not exist. I believe it is far more plausible that a supreme being created all this than some type of accidental/spontaneous explosion brought everything into being in just the right proportions to sustain life. Then again I do not believe either that an explosion in a junk yard will bring forth a perfect car.
    The Bible also says faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. In Romans it goes so far as to say that the things that He has created is enough to prove the Godhead. I personally believe that He has given us all the proof that we need to know from every direction you would look for Him. His evidence is literally everywhere. It is only the blindness of man's spirit in rebellion that keeps the natural man from being able to see what is absolutely clearly evident.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Never said mine was better, never even mentioned what mine was. Just looking for some proof as to why you believe in yours.

    So, yours is better because god sent someone to die... or that is how the story goes anyway. How do you know that this is a fact based story? Do you have any other proof to support this story? Because, I have read many of stories. Some with monsters, some with zombies, some that rhyme, some that have pictures. This doesnt make them true.
    Dear Onlinedad, you need to put into perspective that your doubts about the Bible are nothing new. Many have gone before you with this same exact question. One of the most interesting doubters of the gospel account of the resurrection is that of Simon Greenleaf who is the author of our "modern" rules of evidence used in the courtroom today. He took the rules that he developed and applied them to the testimony of the four gospels of Christ. Most would think he was able to prove absolutely with these rules of evidence that the gospels are all fiction. Well, why not get his very affordable book and read his own exploration of the proofs of the gospel using the rules of evidence in our courtrooms today.

    Amazon.com: The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence (9780825427473): Simon Greenleaf: Books

    You need to know and understand that the Bible is written as a law book spelling out what the laws of God are and what our duties are to our Creator. It is not a fluke of evidence that the Bible is written in such a manner that it passes the test of the rules of evidence. You need to understand that the Bible is the lawbook by which God shall keep all of His promises, to those that love Him and to those that hate Him.

  7. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    That is an interesting statement to say about yourself; that you have not evolved but we have... hmm... lets extrapolate from this. You are stuck in your midevil superstitions, while the rest of us have stopped believing that the world is flat, and that the only way to get it to rain is by prayer. Pretty humorous.
    The only thing humorous is your ignorance, but without the laugh. Can't extrapolate with you,you're folly is very clear..2 Timothy 3:7.."always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth".
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post

    But those who believe in evolution (big bang theory) do believe an explosion in a junk yard will bring forth a perfect car, after all, isn't that how "they" got here? Hmm..maybe they want to extrapolate (big word for them) on this?
    Dear Ringo,

    There is no evidence to back up evolution what so ever. Stephen J. Gould came up with his punctuated equilibrium theory of rapid evolutionary changes because the data for slow Darwinian type changes is completely absent in the fossil record despite trillions of available fossils. What we have found is that species remain constant through time. He also understood Haldane's dilemma and cost of substitution requiring all in the breeding population to die that don't have the new desired trait allegedly formed by positive or beneficial mutations which have never been demonstrated. So because of the lack of evidence, that was Gould's evidence for rapid change. That is the type of thinking the pervades evolutionary thought. It is assumed that evolution has happened and then they look for that evidence. Yet, the evidence just does not exist.

  9. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Dear Onlinedad,
    You need to know and understand that the Bible is written as a law book spelling out what the laws of God are and what our duties are to our Creator. It is not a fluke of evidence that the Bible is written in such a manner that it passes the test of the rules of evidence. You need to understand that the Bible is the law book by which God shall keep all of His promises, to those that love Him and to those that hate Him.
    Now that's the whole truth.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  10. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Dear Ringo,

    There is no evidence to back up evolution what so ever. Stephen J. Gould came up with his punctuated equilibrium theory of rapid evolutionary changes because the data for slow Darwinian type changes is completely absent in the fossil record despite trillions of available fossils. What we have found is that species remain constant through time. He also understood Haldane's dilemma and cost of substitution requiring all in the breeding population to die that don't have the new desired trait allegedly formed by positive or beneficial mutations which have never been demonstrated. So because of the lack of evidence, that was Gould's evidence for rapid change. That is the type of thinking the pervades evolutionary thought. It is assumed that evolution has happened and then they look for that evidence. Yet, the evidence just does not exist.
    I know that Alaska, I was being ..
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I know that Alaska, I was being ..
    Sorry, I should have said, "as you know."

    God bless,

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