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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    But you inferred that you choose well and I do not, with regard to things of spirit or faith. Did you not characterize my failure to accept Christ as a "bad" choice?
    2nd Timothy 3:7..."Ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the TRUTH".
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

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  3. #302
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    Alaska

    You have Cocked and Locked's attention and he can't let go.

    Some of the best believers were first non-believers.

    Our Forefathers knew they needed the power of God and the courage it gave them to do what they needed to do to make this a free Country.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America says, "When in the course of human events, it becomes neccessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation,"

    They also believed that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
    “Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    You have Cocked and Locked's attention and he can't let go.
    I'm not presumptuous enough to accuse you or Alsaka or anyone else of being "wrong."

    Actions speak louder than words. Your actual "proof" (not the fairy tale sort) to follow...

  5. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    Alaska

    You have Cocked and Locked's attention and he can't let go.

    Some of the best believers were first non-believers.

    Our Forefathers knew they needed the power of God and the courage it gave them to do what they needed to do to make this a free Country.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America says, "When in the course of human events, it becomes neccessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation,"

    They also believed that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
    How about this one Not sure if it has already been posted or not

    The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom

    Thomas Jefferson, 1786


    Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporal rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labors for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that, therefore, the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to the offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which in common with his fellow citizens he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honors and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles, on the supposition of their ill tendency, is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency, will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.
    Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

    And though we well know this Assembly, elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no powers equal to our own and that therefore to declare this act irrevocable would be of no effect in law, yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right.

  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    Our Forefathers knew they needed the power of God and the courage it gave them to do what they needed to do to make this a free Country.
    Why do you suppose the men who were elected by the people to draw up a new constitution of government for the U. S. granted the proposed government not even the slightest right to authority over religion? How can the U. S. be a Christian Nation if the government of the nation has no authority to foster, encourage or support Christianity?

  7. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    They also believed that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
    It appears that in 1787, when the new proposed Constitution was framed by the General Convention in Philadelphia, most of the delegates chosen to speak for the people believed that one of those God given rights was the right of a man to be totally free from civil government influence over his religion. That would explain why they granted the proposed government no authority whatsoever over religion which was in line with the liberal Protestant view in 1787 that the civil magistrate hath no authority in things purely spiritual, which rejected the conservative Protestant view that The King hath the chief power over Ecclesiastical matters.

    How can it be said that the U. S. is a Christan Nation when the government of the nation has no power to foster, encourage or support the Christian religion?

  8. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    It wasn't that long ago, every student said the Lord's prayer every morning before school started.
    That's a myth, Debray.

  9. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    That was before the same left wing idiots that are leading our Government now took over the schools .
    State and local governments assumed authority over education at least a hundred years ago, Debray.

  10. #309


    Ok I know that this doesnt follow the discussion very closely, buy I found it humorous

  11. #310
    Alaska, to jump back a couple of pages, I wasn't trying to avoid the topics of discussion that you had brought up. I just wanted to get some more opinions about other peoples religions as well. And, see if they used similar arguments to prove their beliefs as you did with yours. I will return to our conversation at a later time, first hopefully with some added value of other views to go along with it

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