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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    you pose several examples of those that have opposed the gospel of Christ in America
    What examples?

    You are blind to the hundreds and thousands of documents and events that show that we are a Christian nation.
    What exactly do you mean by "Christian nation?"

    to the myriad of proofs of the Christian nature of our nation.
    I thought the issue was the nature of the government of the nation.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Charles Cooper View Post
    Nope. You're wrong. At the time the Constitution was adopted the prevailing view of the American people was that the people were the source of civil authority. That's why the Constitution was established in the name of the people, not in the name of Jesus.

    If you mean God has absolute and exclusive authority over things purely spiritual and the civil magistrate has none whatsoever, then I agree. If you mean that just governments derive their legitimate authority from the people, not God, then I agree.

    Civil governments derive their just authority from the people. The Declaration of Independence says so.
    My retort to you is to go back and read the 1780 Mass Constitution as well as the other state constitutions and know and understand that the Bill of Rights in no manner curtailed their outward allegiance to the God of the Bible. Since when don't you understand the law of the land that you must be a professed Protestant Christian to be governor of the state of Massachusetts and that the US Constitution and the first amendment in no manner abrogates the Mass Constitution. For you to prevail in this ongoing discussion, you will need to show evidence that the first amendment abrogated that 1780 Mass Constitution. When you have found that document, please let us know.

    Cheers,

  4. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    the Bill of Rights in no manner curtailed their outward allegiance to the God of the Bible.
    We won't really know that until we interpret the Bill of Rights.

  5. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    their outward allegiance to the God of the Bible..you must be a professed Protestant Christian to be governor of the state of Massachusetts
    Why are you so devoted to civil authority over religion?

    US Constitution and the first amendment in no manner abrogates the Mass Constitution.
    That all depends on how they're interpreted.

    you will need to show evidence that the first amendment abrogated that 1780 Mass Constitution.
    First, you show how such an abrogation would help us ascertain the meaning of the Constitution.

  6. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Dear Iceman, is it easy to take Scripture out of context and then misunderstand and misrepresent what it is speaking about? Absolutely, you and Onlinedad seem to be able to do this without much thought at all. Thisj quote from Isaiah is a prophecy of how another nation shall overthrow Babylon in the same manner as Bablyon overthrew their enemies, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

    Shall you be righteous Iceman so that God is unrighteous? I wouldn't try that defense when you stand before Him, surely it will be a losing defense.
    "is it easy to take Scripture out of context and then misunderstand and misrepresent what it is speaking about? "
    You Christians do it all the time.

    I asked you "Christians" why, my swinger neighbors if "outed" will be asked to leave their church. If God loves all, and wants us to worship in a church, then why would the Christians throw them out?
    Your answer was "Shall you be righteous Iceman so that God is unrighteous? I wouldn't try that defense when you stand before Him, surely it will be a losing defense."
    You are trying to scam me with your answer.

    Are not all "Christians" sinners on a regular basis? No more, no less, then the swingers?
    This religion stuff seems all pretty fake to me.
    Some wittiness came to the door on Sunday afternoon. I asked them, how is it possible that Jesus appeared as an invisible man in 1914, and is still there in Red Hook. They were puzzled, and said they would come back.
    It is all a scam.

    There was a TV preacher on this morning, who spent 30 minutes trying to convince people to sew a $1000. seed of faith.
    Another scam.
    Religion is a scam.
    If you or anyone else finds comfort in it, then great. I will not think badly of you.
    I have been scammed a few times in my life, and I can't find fault for anyone doing likewise.

    Many years ago, I was born again. According to the book, that is all I need.
    I have my ticket to get on the stair way to heaven.
    So, I will take my chances, when I stand in front of God.

  7. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    There was absolutely no discord between the 1780 Mass Constitution and the many other state constitutions with similar clauses and the first ammendment.
    There would have been a boat load of discord, Alaska. The U. S. Constitution forbids a religious test, such as the one Satan put in the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780.

    By 1789, most of the States didn't have any religious tests, weren't enforcing any religious tests still on the books or would soon amend their constitutions to conform with the U. S. Constitution principle of separation of religion from government.

    The religious test in the Massachusetts Constitution was the exception, not the rule. It wasn't consistent with the spirit of the times.

    There was a long and bitter fight, from about 1792 to about 1833, between the Democratic Republicans and the Federalists over separation of religion and government in Massachusetts. Eventually the forces of Satan were defeated and separation of region from government established in Massachusetts.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    "is it easy to take Scripture out of context and then misunderstand and misrepresent what it is speaking about? "
    You Christians do it all the time.

    I asked you "Christians" why, my swinger neighbors if "outed" will be asked to leave their church. If God loves all, and wants us to worship in a church, then why would the Christians throw them out?
    Your answer was "Shall you be righteous Iceman so that God is unrighteous? I wouldn't try that defense when you stand before Him, surely it will be a losing defense."
    You are trying to scam me with your answer.

    Are not all "Christians" sinners on a regular basis? No more, no less, then the swingers?
    This religion stuff seems all pretty fake to me.
    Some wittiness came to the door on Sunday afternoon. I asked them, how is it possible that Jesus appeared as an invisible man in 1914, and is still there in Red Hook. They were puzzled, and said they would come back.
    It is all a scam.

    There was a TV preacher on this morning, who spent 30 minutes trying to convince people to sew a $1000. seed of faith.
    Another scam.
    Religion is a scam.
    If you or anyone else finds comfort in it, then great. I will not think badly of you.
    I have been scammed a few times in my life, and I can't find fault for anyone doing likewise.

    Many years ago, I was born again. According to the book, that is all I need.
    I have my ticket to get on the stair way to heaven.
    So, I will take my chances, when I stand in front of God.
    Good luck.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Charles Cooper View Post
    There would have been a boat load of discord, Alaska. The U. S. Constitution forbids a religious test, such as the one Satan put in the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780.

    By 1789, most of the States didn't have any religious tests, weren't enforcing any religious tests still on the books or would soon amend their constitutions to conform with the U. S. Constitution principle of separation of religion from government.

    The religious test in the Massachusetts Constitution was the exception, not the rule. It wasn't consistent with the spirit of the times.

    There was a long and bitter fight, from about 1792 to about 1833, between the Democratic Republicans and the Federalists over separation of religion and government in Massachusetts. Eventually the forces of Satan were defeated and separation of region from government established in Massachusetts.
    Charles, your so called historical references turn up flawed everytime I check out your specific facts. THe US Supreme Court ruled religious tests were unconstitutinal not in 1833 as you state, but instead in 1961:

    Torcaso v. Watkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Get your facts straight Charles. Your blinded view of history is incredible, but also easy to refute. The 14th amendment has been incorportated into many of the Bill of Rights placing the states and local governments under the restrictions of the Federal constitution when prior to incorporation they were not. Many do not understand the dynamics of a limited government and retained rights by the state and individuals. That is the spirit of the Federal Papers.

    Over time, the Feds have usurped power not given to them by the founders to grow into the monster we have today. Once again, the Federal Constitution applied to the limited national, or Federal government and all other rights were left to the states and individuals. We now have a second amendment case called McDonald vs Chicago where it is likely that the second amendment will be incorporated into the 14th amendment. It is not automatic. That is 2010 vs 1789 when we had the constitution. I personally feel we have more safety leaving many of these rights unincorporated and we will pay a price with guns once it is incorporated. That is why we are not able to apply Heller to the individual states. If you understand the law so well, then you should educate us on these issues correctly. To date, I have not found your various references useful since they do not appear to be accurate. Just my opinion.

  10. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    THe US Supreme Court ruled religious tests were unconstitutinal not in 1833 as you state, but instead in 1961
    The American people ruled religious tests unconstitutional when they established the U. S. Constitution with a provision that forbid them.

    The State of New York never had a religious test. The State of Rhode Island never had a religious test. The State of Virginia never had a religious test. North Carolina had a religious test on the books in 1789, but it was ignored. Georgia got rid of it's religious test in 1789. South Carolina got rid of it's religious test before the Bill of Rights was ratified. Pennsylvania dropped it's religious test in 1790. Delaware dropped it's religious test in 1792.

    The people of the remaining five states worshiped Satan and were slow to drop their evil religious tests and establish true religious liberty.

  11. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Charles, your so called historical references turn up flawed everytime I check out your specific facts. THe US Supreme Court ruled religious tests were unconstitutinal not in 1833 as you state, but instead in 1961:

    Torcaso v. Watkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Get your facts straight Charles. Your blinded view of history is incredible, but also easy to refute. The 14th amendment has been incorportated into many of the Bill of Rights placing the states and local governments under the restrictions of the Federal constitution when prior to incorporation they were not. Many do not understand the dynamics of a limited government and retained rights by the state and individuals. That is the spirit of the Federal Papers.

    Over time, the Feds have usurped power not given to them by the founders to grow into the monster we have today. Once again, the Federal Constitution applied to the limited national, or Federal government and all other rights were left to the states and individuals. We now have a second amendment case called McDonald vs Chicago where it is likely that the second amendment will be incorporated into the 14th amendment. It is not automatic. That is 2010 vs 1789 when we had the constitution. I personally feel we have more safety leaving many of these rights unincorporated and we will pay a price with guns once it is incorporated. That is why we are not able to apply Heller to the individual states. If you understand the law so well, then you should educate us on these issues correctly. To date, I have not found your various references useful since they do not appear to be accurate. Just my opinion.
    A socialist with flawed references and he is a lawyer too. Imagine that.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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