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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #51
    Secondly, to say that our country is starting to swirl in the bowl, just because it no longer believes in god seems just the same as saying that children stop being good when they no longer believe in Santa Claus.

    I believe that is a flawed analogy because I Know God is real and Santa Clause is not. Comparing apples and oranges. For those that do not believe it may make sense but for those of us that do it does not.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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  3. #52
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    I guess it's time to start getting the prison camps ready, build some really big gas chambers and begin rounding up all the non-believers, then?

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    I guess it's time to start getting the prison camps ready, build some really big gas chambers and begin rounding up all the non-believers, then?
    Some of 'em, anyway.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Secondly, to say that our country is starting to swirl in the bowl, just because it no longer believes in god seems just the same as saying that children stop being good when they no longer believe in Santa Claus.

    I believe that is a flawed analogy because I Know God is real and Santa Clause is not. Comparing apples and oranges. For those that do not believe it may make sense but for those of us that do it does not.
    Thats okay, sometimes its hard for kids too, when they are told or find out that Santa is not real either. Some will cry, some will get angry and lash out at the other kids who dont believe, and some will believe anyway just because thats how they cope. And thats okay too.

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by schwei View Post
    (now I am thickening my skin for the replies),
    +1, just a friendly
    discussion of different ideas

    when viewed from the perspective of one who believes in God, I can easily see where this is due to our falling away from those roots. (Where do these morals that everyone speaks of come from anyway? Think about that.) My complaint would be that, everyone says that all religions should be accepted. I however, have found that this is not true. All religions, with the exception of Christianity, are accepted. As a member of a Christian group, I have found my rights are constantly being eroded.
    Maybe not so much that your rights are being eroded, but the world is becoming more tolerant of other people and their rights as well.
    Morals and/or ethics stem from emotion and logic. Which is why everyone is different. Everyone will have a different emotional response to a situation and come to a different logical conclusion as someone else, due to their past expieriences. (we could carry on this discussion as well, perhaps in a different post)

    Memorials that have stood for DECADES, or placed for comfort of grieving families or friends are constantly being attacked.
    I agree that destroying any part of historical value (statues, buildings, etc) is wrong... However, this is the same thing that the christians did to the Pagens when christianity was starting to force its beliefs on them.

    If we are going to accept all, we need to be intellectually honest as citizens and indeed, accept all. Perhaps, more telling would be to see who is bringing about the difficulty that we, as Christians, are facing. I would suggest it is the same group of people that say they want religious freedoms (more like freedom from religion) and as a result I am being denied as well. Is this equitable?
    This is just my opinion... but, I will speculate... I think that the difficulty that you as christians are seeing, is that less and less people are believing your religion, and that is (slowly) turning your ideas into a minority. Therefore, you are not really being denied anything, except lack of power in the control of govt. and its policies/practices. You can still practice what you want to, but you cannot force others to practice the same way.

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    +1, just a friendly
    discussion of different ideas



    Maybe not so much that your rights are being eroded, but the world is becoming more tolerant of other people and their rights as well.
    Morals and/or ethics stem from emotion and logic. Which is why everyone is different. Everyone will have a different emotional response to a situation and come to a different logical conclusion as someone else, due to their past expieriences. (we could carry on this discussion as well, perhaps in a different post)



    I agree that destroying any part of historical value (statues, buildings, etc) is wrong... However, this is the same thing that the christians did to the Pagens when christianity was starting to force its beliefs on them.



    This is just my opinion... but, I will speculate... I think that the difficulty that you as christians are seeing, is that less and less people are believing your religion, and that is (slowly) turning your ideas into a minority. Therefore, you are not really being denied anything, except lack of power in the control of govt. and its policies/practices. You can still practice what you want to, but you cannot force others to practice the same way.
    Time to jump in here, if only for a quick visit. Onelinedad, in the post above you used the word "force" twice that I see, in the context of Christians "forcing" their beliefs on everyone else. Ignoring the Inquisition, it is not a tenet of Christianity to "force" itself on anyone. In fact, the practice is anathema to the teachings of Christ. It is only via our free will that salvation can be attained.

    Surely, as a born-again Christian, I have no desire to install any theocracy in our country. I"m pretty sure other Christians on this site would agree.

    What we are arguing, however, is the essential history and nature of our nation. We Christians are lamenting the drifting away of our country, culture, and government from its Judeo-Christian roots and the very active drive, over recent decades, to remove all vestiges of our heritage from the public square. As I stated earlier, our fight for our "culture" is no different than that of any other. We're proud of it, we believe in its essential worthiness, and we will resist efforts to eradicate it.

    Having said all that, I have NO problem with persons of different beliefs; not all my friends are Christian by any stretch of the imagination (and I'm a poor one to boot). But I will fight to my last breath those who would attack my faith, my God, my Christian brothers and sisters and my country in order to destroy this heritage.

    I have several friends who are American Indians. They fight like hell to retain their culture. We Christians are doing the same.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    ...turning your ideas into a minority. Therefore, you are not really being denied anything, except lack of power in the control of govt. and its policies/practices.
    How perceptive, Dad - I believe you hit the nail right on the head!

    And this notion ties right right in with the general anti-government paranoia, Obama-noia, immigraphobia, and other ailments we see encouraged here with the spread of appropriately targeted FUD. Christianity is a convenient, common thread easily wrapped around these topics.

    My interest in it is the entertainment value of watching them go kicking and screaming all the way.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    Thats okay, sometimes its hard for kids too, when they are told or find out that Santa is not real either. Some will cry, some will get angry and lash out at the other kids who dont believe, and some will believe anyway just because thats how they cope. And thats okay too.
    That is OK. You may not see the light but you will feel the heat.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Onlinedad View Post
    To respond to your first point, I am not disagreeing that there was alot of christian influence in the history of America and its conception. The original question of "is America a christian nation" is what I have the issue with. How can we, as a country, state that we are a _______ Nation. No matter what religion you put into that blank. America is comprised of many different peoples and different beliefs. To say that we are just one of those religious factions, pretty much excludes everyone else (even if you are nice to them). And, for our govt to openly state that we are _______ Nation would be just as outlandish.

    Secondly, to say that our country is starting to swirl in the bowl, just because it no longer believes in god seems just the same as saying that children stop being good when they no longer believe in Santa Claus. Just because you no longer believe that your imaginary friend is real does not automatically convert you into a convict. The problem that we have in our country that is causing us to suffer, is the overall greed and ruthless search for power. We no longer have the same bond with our fellow countrymen as was once there. Big business will screw over its own customers just to get a buck. We have sent many many jobs overseas. Turning us into a primaraly consumer nation. So now our economy is based on how much we spend, or how much we can spend on credit. With most of that money ending up overseas.... sorry start getting carried away and straying from point.

    Lastly can you expand on what you mean by what the bible says about Israel? I was forceably raised as christian, so I am not completely ignorant of the subject, but what you are reffering to lacks enough detail for me to follow your logic. If you are trying to say something along the lines that the bible has made prophecies about Israel that are starting to come true... well should I bring up all of the different prophecies that have been made over time? Nostradaumus made many predictions, but his predictions haven't justified a religious following, nor have not been accepted as proof of fact that all of his predictions will come true. Even a broken watch can be right twice a day (unless it digital darn that new fangled technology prooving all our old traditions wrong ).
    Dear Onlinedad,

    I will forgo further discussion with you on point one, it is simply a historical fact that is readily seen in our early documents that America was started as a Christian nation. Historical revisionism will not change that evidence at all. Once again, there are hundreds of documents to prove that point starting with the MA constitution of 1780 which you have yet to directly address.

    Point two, since you don't understand point one and how the constitution was designed for a people that regulated themselves under the gospel of Christ, probably not room for agreement or discussion on this issue as well. Nevertheless, the history of Israel is a great place to learn of the blessings and curses of a people that at first worshipped God and then turned from Him. This is a historically documented issue as well. I learned in college to enjoy history for the lessons it can teach us. The lesson of Israel is my answer to your contorted allegory of Santa clause. There is an absolute cause and effect of running in the opposite direction from God.

    As far as knowing Jesus as my Saviour and Creator, that is a no brainer to me once I met Him one on one, which is by the way the only way that you meet Him. The answered prayer, the way He talks to me through the Bible and so many other ways that you would probably call coincidence is real and true and clearly evident to me.

    Lastly, I was saved through the study of Bible prophecy that at first I questioned whether it was really real. One day, the Lord showed me specifically that it was real and I sat in amazement and said out loud, wow, this is the true, literal word of God. In the next few days I asked questions and He answered in a very deliberate manner. When I am able to stay in the spirit and avoid the issues of the flesh, He has continued to answer my questions in an absolute manner. The most abundantly clear times are after a period of fasting and prayer. Those are the times that it sends shivers up and down your spine. Is God real, you betchya. Is Santa real, no way and I didn't ever shed any tears about that.

    As far as Israel, yes both history of that nation and Bible prophecy which unlike the false prophets you mentioned is 100% accurate. If you want a short example to work with, go to Leviticus chapter 26 which tells the story of Israel from the time of Moses to that not yet fulfilled, but up to the return of Israel to the land in 1948. Indeed, the year 1948 is the exact time of fulfillment of several put together. Grant Jeffries wrote of this several years ago. Yet for simplicity sake, just read the entire chapter I noted above and you will see the entire history of Israel over the last 4000 years written by Moses. In addition, just tell me one nation that kept its traditions, its language and customs while dispersed for 2000 years and then became a nation overnight once again. Yes, you want proof that the Bible is true, and I say Israel. If you don't understand why that is true, then I will turn you to look at all of the prophecies of Israel in the Bible for the evidence of what God has to say about this issue. Are there more examples, absolutely, but this is a one word proof of the truth of the Bible. If you don't wish to look, that is up to you, but the proof is there.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by schwei View Post
    To quote onlinedad:

    The problem that we have in our country that is causing us to suffer, is the overall greed and ruthless search
    for power. We no longer have the same bond with our fellow countrymen as was once there.

    Could it be that the problem that he recognizes in our country is indeed a result of a falling away from our Christian roots? I agree that this country was indeed founded on Christian principles. One would be illiterate or in stubborn denial to believe otherwise after reading documents from the Founding Fathers. That should be self-evident. We have slipped away. Far away. From onlinedad's viewpoint, I can see where he would claim that the above is a root problem with our nation today. However, (now I am thickening my skin for the replies), when viewed from the perspective of one who believes in God, I can easily see where this is due to our falling away from those roots. (Where do these morals that everyone speaks of come from anyway? Think about that.) My complaint would be that, everyone says that all religions should be accepted. I however, have found that this is not true. All religions, with the exception of Christianity, are accepted. As a member of a Christian group, I have found my rights are constantly being eroded. Memorials that have stood for DECADES, or placed for comfort of grieving families or friends are constantly being attacked. If we are going to accept all, we need to be intellectually honest as citizens and indeed, accept all. Perhaps, more telling would be to see who is bringing about the difficulty that we, as Christians, are facing. I would suggest it is the same group of people that say they want religious freedoms (more like freedom from religion) and as a result I am being denied as well. Is this equitable?
    The reason that you have freedom of religion in America is because we are a Christian nation, no other religion allows that freedom to question itself against other religions. It is perfectly honest condition to question what God has written, but if you search for Him with all of your heart, He promises that He will find you.

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