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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #591
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    I understand the point being made that as a society, our moral upbringing has waivered and led to some less than reputable people and decisions.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an upbringing based in god to be a good one.

    And being raised to believe and have faith in god doesn't make anyone better than anyone else, it just doesn't.

    This is of course just my opinion, and is subject to being incorrect like everyone else's.
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  3. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnerbob View Post
    And being raised to believe and have faith in god doesn't make anyone better than anyone else, it just doesn't.
    Maybe not in this life. But that's why there's Heaven "AND" Hell in the next.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  4. #593
    "And being raised to believe and have faith in god doesn't make anyone better than anyone else, it just doesn't.

    This is of course just my opinion, and is subject to being incorrect like everyone else's."

    Being a follower of Christ doesn't make me better, just forgiven ie "saved" thats why the Bible calls it grace, "for yet while we were sinners, Christ died for us" I still sin, have bad attitude, and stuggle with temptations, forgiveness is given by asking. As to the historical proofs of Christ and His sacrifice,
    A secular, "non believer" wrote in historical writings of the time, about Jesus Christ. His name was Josephus, and he wrote at the time of Christ much that has been proven to be historically true, and was a Jewish historian.

  5. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain man View Post
    A secular, "non believer" wrote in historical writings of the time, about Jesus Christ. His name was Josephus, and he wrote at the time of Christ much that has been proven to be historically true, and was a Jewish historian.
    First, Josephus was not a "nonbeliever" - even you recognized that he was a Jewish Historian. You do realize that Jews and Christians believe in the same god - the one that calls himself "I am I am" in the old testament.?

    Second, Josephus mentions Jesus in only two places. the first is recognized as an actual entry by Josephus. It merely reports that people are telling the story of a man named Jesus and then repeats some of the story. It is a report, like the NY Times reporting that some yahoo claims to have been abducted by aliens. It isn't evidence that the yahoo was abducted by aliens.

    Third, the only other reference in the works of Josephus to Jesus is an obvious fraud. Scholars agree that it is not written in the style or manner of Josephus and was most likely inserted by early christian historians.

  6. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    First, Josephus was not a "nonbeliever" - even you recognized that he was a Jewish Historian. You do realize that Jews and Christians believe in the same god - the one that calls himself "I am I am" in the old testament.?

    Second, Josephus mentions Jesus in only two places. the first is recognized as an actual entry by Josephus. It merely reports that people are telling the story of a man named Jesus and then repeats some of the story. It is a report, like the NY Times reporting that some yahoo claims to have been abducted by aliens. It isn't evidence that the yahoo was abducted by aliens.

    Third, the only other reference in the works of Josephus to Jesus is an obvious fraud. Scholars agree that it is not written in the style or manner of Josephus and was most likely inserted by early christian historians.
    First, when I say nonbeliever, I am refering to Josephus as not a follower of Christ. Josephus was in fact recognized by and lived with Romans and was an acclaimed Historian by both Jews and Romans. Orthadox Jews do not recognize Christ as the Son of God, or in other words recognize God Almighty and the law or Torah only, therefore according to Scriptures they will be judged by God under the law without grace, Jesus paid the price for the law and belief covers one with His Grace and Mercy.

    Second, The fact that a Jewish historian mentions Jesus, is circumstantial proof of His existence. Historically the fact that there is evidence of the existance of Jesus and the historical evidence of eyewitnesses of Christ so convinced of what they personally witnessed in His crucafiction and resurecction they would choose death rather than denounce their belief in Christ, death in excruciating agony and terror in the Coliseum or through crucifiction is strong historical evidence. Incedently the circumstantial evidence for Christ is more than would be required to convict a murderer with a death sentence.

    Third, No one alive today was an eyewitness to the Roman empire as it was 2000 years ago, yet the same historical evidence that proves Roman history exists as proof of Christ, and the evidence to the accuracy of the Bible is there.

  7. #596
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    So, please correct me if I'm wrong... really, do... if one is a devout follower of god and his son jesus christ, it also means that humans have only been around for somewhere between 6-10 thousand years? I'm curious here.

    Also, what about life that pre dates humans? Like dinosuars? Is that all made up and the scientific evidence is bologna?

    Also, what about some of the contradictions in the bible? Such as:

    "... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes1:4

    "... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2 Peter 3:10

    And,

    "... I have seen God face to face ..." -- Genesis 32:30

    "No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18

    As well as,

    "...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25

    "...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39

    Or,

    "Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12

    "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also,he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26

    These all seem to contradict each other, don't they? Isn't it interesting that there are so many different religions as well? Yet, each says the other is wrong and those followers are destined for hell.

    Does anybody see the view of, "god says to believe in me, or you'll burn forever"... seem, not like something an all loving god would say? IDK, maybe it is. It's like god is telling us he's protecting us from... him. Weird.

    What's said of the simularities the bible has with the story of Gilgimesh, from Mesopotamia? Could the bible be a collection of old stories throughout history, and nothing more?

    Is the garden of eden really at the "source" of 4 rivers, and is now beneath todays Persian Gulf?

    I'd like some insight here please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  8. #597
    Gunnerbob: You have located a number of "talking points" that have been gone over.... and gone over, by from anything from casual philosophy discussions to careful and deliberate examinations by very learned men (and women). Not much has been settled. (Or compromised.)

    While we cannot state that we are a "Christian Nation"... we CAN state that our philosophical heritage is deeply rooted in Christian teachings. As has been all of "Western Moral thought/philosophy".

    Been that way since Rome adopted the Christian Religion as their own.

    .... and what IS Western Culture but the inheritors of the might (and "right") that was Rome's?

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  9. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Gunnerbob: You have located a number of "talking points" that have been gone over.... and gone over, by from anything from casual philosophy discussions to careful and deliberate examinations by very learned men (and women). Not much has been settled. (Or compromised.)

    While we cannot state that we are a "Christian Nation"... we CAN state that our philosophical heritage is deeply rooted in Christian teachings. As has been all of "Western Moral thought/philosophy".

    Been that way since Rome adopted the Christian Religion as their own.

    .... and what IS Western Culture but the inheritors of the might (and "right") that was Rome's?

    GG
    Thanks Gunny, I figured what I always did... there's no way to really know. And some things have to be taken on faith. B/c that's what believing in god is all about.

    I will continue to research the topic, whether I find anything or not... I have to satisfy myself. It is a very interesting subject whether one believes or not. Theology, and studying it can only do one thing for me... make me less ignorant, and I like that idea.

    There is no denying Americas roots are christian, no doubt.

    Thanks again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  10. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnerbob View Post
    So, please correct me if I'm wrong... really, do... if one is a devout follower of god and his son jesus christ, it also means that humans have only been around for somewhere between 6-10 thousand years? I'm curious here.

    Also, what about life that pre dates humans? Like dinosuars? Is that all made up and the scientific evidence is bologna?

    Also, what about some of the contradictions in the bible? Such as:

    "... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes1:4

    "... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2 Peter 3:10

    And,

    "... I have seen God face to face ..." -- Genesis 32:30

    "No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18

    As well as,

    "...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25

    "...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39

    Or,

    "Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12

    "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also,he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26

    These all seem to contradict each other, don't they? Isn't it interesting that there are so many different religions as well? Yet, each says the other is wrong and those followers are destined for hell.

    Does anybody see the view of, "god says to believe in me, or you'll burn forever"... seem, not like something an all loving god would say? IDK, maybe it is. It's like god is telling us he's protecting us from... him. Weird.

    What's said of the simularities the bible has with the story of Gilgimesh, from Mesopotamia? Could the bible be a collection of old stories throughout history, and nothing more?

    Is the garden of eden really at the "source" of 4 rivers, and is now beneath todays Persian Gulf?

    I'd like some insight here please.
    You have a lot of questions, that's good. You can get a straight answer to all of your questions simply by tuning in everyday to listen to other peoples questions answered, or call "free of charge" and ask your own questions. You won't be disappointed. To Every Man An Answer :: Home
    Go to the bottom of the page and click on CSN Home Page, then click stations to find your area.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  11. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    You have a lot of questions, that's good. You can get a straight answer to all of your questions simply by tuning in everyday to listen to other peoples questions answered, or call "free of charge" and ask your own questions. You won't be disappointed. To Every Man An Answer :: Home
    Go to the bottom of the page and click on CSN Home Page, then click stations to find your area.
    Thank you Ringo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

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