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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty Stu View Post
    I'm Jewish. There have been Jews in the United States since its foundation. The oldest U.S. synagogues date to the 1600s:

    List of the oldest synagogues in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Judaism predates Christianity and by definition is not a Christian religion because we don't believe in Jesus Christ as god
    or even as a prophet. It is pretty hard to argue that we were not one of the religions that the drafter's of the 1st Amendment tried to protect.

    The argument that references to the word "God" in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution somehow negate this baffle me. God means the Supreme Creator of the World. It encompasses Hasham, Adonyai, Jehovah, Allah or whatever name a particular religion attaches to God. It does not include prophets (Moses, Mohammed, etc). I believe in God as much as a Christian or a Muslim does. I can take the oath "under God" as easily as a Christian can.
    I do not want to get into a theological discussion, but will say that I consider myself a Christian, even though I do not believe that Christ is God like a few Religions may teach. So on that note, based upon your definition, since I believe in God and believe in Christ but not in Christ being God, then I must not be a Christian, yet I am also not Catholic or Jewish. I guess I am just a conundrum then. :D

    I will admit that though the DoI refers to GOD as Natures GOD, it uses the generalization of Creator! The Constitution and the BoR on the other hand are absent any direct reference.

    This does not change my view and understanding that we are a Nation of Christians or "Nation Under God". If you find offense with that, then maybe you can view what I said to be a Nation of Believers in God.

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  3. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    As Christians, why then do we ignore scripture? James 5:12... "But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest you fall under judgment".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    So sorry. It wasn't my intention to "goad you" into any theological discussion, especially with such a "simple question". So sorry too that you are so confused about this thread (America is a Christian nation), you know, Christian religion, theological and all that stuff? So sorry too to have to inform you that you (what a shock) brought religion into the discussion.[U].Quote."Then consider why when testifying in court. That we are swearing to whom, when we swear to tell the truth- Allah? Mohamed? Buddha? No it is "So Help Me GOD! If we were not founded as a Nation of Christians, why would these simple elements of proof exist?" However, in the midst of all of your excuses, tale of woe, and fear of jeopardy you did have "a chance". All you had to do was to be honest and admit that "you don't know" the answer.


    So you do not understand that by quoting scripture, you are bringing a biblically theological element into the discussion?

    Interesting!

    You clearly are attempting to goad me into something as you are completely ignoring that the subject I was posting about referred to our Country not being founded as a Christian Nation, but as a Nation of Christians. This is evident when you present my statement about the Oath in Court, and were inferring that somehow I was either citing scripture, or bringing Theology/Religion itself into the discussion.

    Most any educated individual will see that I was referring to our Nations Founding, and not discussing Theology, you were the one to quote scripture rather than our Founding Documents and seeking to get me into responding on the same level.

    As you cannot accept responsibility for your own actions or words, opting alternatively to sidetrack with misinformation, deceive or disparage, you have earned a place on my ignore list.

  4. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
    you have earned a place on my ignore list.
    A very wise move.
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

  5. Christians who feel compelled to aggressively insinuate their beliefs into every sector of society are annoyingly--and predictably--adept at changing terminology in response to authoritative rejection of and resistance to their messages and methods. For example, in response to overwhelming scientific refutation of "creationism," that term mutated into "creation science" and "scientific creationism," and resounding defeats of attempts to teach it in schools generated "teaching the controversy" (as if there ever was a controversy). I suspect the grossly misleading and comically simplistic "nation of christians" reflects a similar response to defeated attempts to label the US as a "christian nation." It will be amusing to see what comes next.

  6. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    MisterD: I think you summed it up in a nutshell but there are those that you will never convince. Let them think what they want but, in the end, they will all have an amazing revelation of truth. In the words of Gomer Pyle, "Surprise! Surprise!"
    I believe that this country was founded on Christian values. These values have the same meaning to the Jewish faith and to other religions. The Founders were for the most part Christians but they did not want to exclude people who believed in God or whatever other name that He is know by. The Founders had came from a government endorsed religion and did not want to be told how and what they should believe. Since most worshiped the same Supreme Being no matter by what name He was called. It was the values that each could agree on. Now we all can debate over which is the correct path to heaven but for the most part each religion in this country believes in the same core values.

  7. #716
    A Christian nation?

    Most of the people in this country are Christian, but that’s not in dispute or what I think Debray is driving at. The real question is, is our government Christian? The answer is no. We have a secular government. There is no mention of the word “God” in our constitution. “Creator” is used in the Declaration, but theism is not a central or even crucial theme in the document. The individual rights of the people is the central idea to the argument laid out in our Declaration. “Our Creator” is used as poetic prose not as a metaphysical argument.

    I have a question for Debray and his like-minded supporters. Do you really want to live in a Theocracy? I don’t think you do, so let’s keep religion out of our government – like our founders intended.
    Last edited by Rowdy Yates; 12-24-2012 at 11:49 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #717
    Rowdy: My copy of the Declaration of Independence says in the first paragraph,"..........and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the seperate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them......" You are right in thinking we do not want to live under a theocracy but we do want to live under a government and nation which is moral and has a value system which provides for our progress in an otherwise godless world. I am not asking anyone to conform to my religion nor do I intend to conform to anyone else's. I do not believe that we, as a majority, should be required to conform to a baser standard of living because another's feelings are hurt because we do not degrade ourselves and accept something we consider ungodly. Whatever another wants to do or to believe is up to them, just don't expect me to glorify or accept their ways. That being said, our government should be reflective of our society to insure that we do not become as Sodom and Gommorah. If the nation is predominantly Christian, the nation should conform to Christian beliefs yet allow other religions the freedom to practice in their own manner. If, and I say if, these other religions cause a conflict within our nation because of differing beliefs, I personally feel that the differing religion should not cause a disruption against the majority. If they can not practice without causing conflict, as with the followers of Islam, they should move to a country more in keeping with their beliefs. I believe in individual rights but not to the extent of tearing down our way of life for theirs. Guess that makes me a bigot but I have been called worse. I am a like-minded supporter of Debray but I can get along with anyone as long as they don't try to push themselves on me.

  9. #718
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    To all my Christian Friends Merry Christmas

    America is a Christian Nation-vah.jpgAmerica is a Christian Nation-imagescawl0hm5.jpgAnd the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.


    For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.


    And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.


    And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,


    Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    Chuck
    “Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

  10. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Rowdy: My copy of the Declaration of Independence says in the first paragraph,"..........and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the seperate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them......" < clipped > If the nation is predominantly Christian, the nation should conform to Christian beliefs yet allow other religions the freedom to practice in their own manner. < clipped > If they can not practice without causing conflict, as with the followers of Islam, they should move to a country more in keeping with their beliefs. < clipped >

    I will mostly agree with you. The one comment here that I feel at best is unfair, is to equate a few Islamic extremists with the followers of Islam in general, as I have learned there is a difference. As we all have a right to our own opinions, I will respect your right to your own.

    In the Spirit of the Day!

    Merry Christmas to all!

  11. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
    I do not want to get into a theological discussion, but will say that I consider myself a Christian, even though I do not believe that Christ is God like a few Religions may teach. So on that note, based upon your definition, since I believe in God and believe in Christ but not in Christ being God, then I must not be a Christian, yet I am also not Catholic or Jewish. I guess I am just a conundrum then. :D
    There is only "One" Religion that teaches/believes that Jesus is God, it's called Christianity. You say that you consider yourself a Christian and in the same breath you say that you do not believe that Jesus is God. It's no wonder that you start out by saying that you do not want to get into a "theological discussion" and I've "EARNED" a place on your Ignore List, that just makes it so much easier for you to hide such blatant ignorance than it is to discus and acquire some simple knowledge.
    Conundrum
    A riddle whose answer is or involves a pun or unexpected twist.
    A logical postulation that evades resolution, an intricate and difficult problem.

    Conundrum is your version. God has His.. James 1:8.."A double minded man is unstable in all his ways". A Double Minded Man - A man of two souls, or of a double heart, who halts between two opinions, and is at an uncertainty what to do or say, and is undetermined what to ask for; or who is not sincere and upright in his requests, who asks for one thing, and means another, and asks amiss, and with an ill design; does not call upon God in truth, and in the sincerity of his soul; draws nigh to him with his mouth, and honours him with his lips, but his heart is far from him. Such a one is unstable in all his ways. Unstable In All His Ways - He is confused in his mind; unsettled in his designs and intentions; inconstant in his petitions; uncertain in his notions and opinion of things; and very variable in his actions, and especially in matters of religion; he is always changing, and never at a point, but at a continual uncertainty, both in a way of thinking and doing: he never continues long either in an opinion, or in a practice, but is ever shifting and moving.

    Having "EARNED" a place on your ignore list and knowing that you won't be goaded into any theological discussion, I won't expect a reply, because to do so would make you "Double minded and unstable in all your ways".
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

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