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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    Ye of little or no faith will suffer the most.
    Naw, and much preferable to being scared shitless of the big boogie man in the sky for your whole life. But don't worry, it's a fairy tale, and when you are dead, you will have the same fate as the cockroach you killed in your kitchen this morning, you exist only in the memory of others.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  2.   
  3. #782
    Join Date
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    What Happens When You Die


    The Nature of Hell


    The Meaning of Heaven

    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  4. Sorry, OG, but the Bible isn't the evidence--it's a/the source of the assertions in need of supporting evidence. It can't be proof of its own contents. (That very problem is what caused me to start questioning religion when I was about 8 years old. After years of dutifully and even enthusiastically participating in "Jesus Loves Me" chants at Sunday school, I became increasingly suspicious of the notion that the source of the proclamation that "Jesus Loves Me," i.e. the Bible, could also be its own proof that what it said was true, e.g., "This I know, for the Bible tells me so.") Adult Sunday school teachers' condescending annoyance that I would "question the Bible" only accelerated the formation of a thought that maybe we kids were being told what to think and above all to never question anything in or about the Bible. Only later did I learn about brainwashing. By about 7th grade I had pretty much shed the shackles of religious indoctrination and a whole world of intellectual freedom and inquiry, as well as an appreciation for critical thinking, opened up to me and others of my age who had broken the code. Of course, that didn't keep me from going to the Albrook AFB chapel's evening youth fellowship activities for awhile to meet girls.

    As to external events "validating" the Bible's "prophecies," I'm not about to get into that other than to say that the oft-cited passages are so ambiguous that they can be declared to mean whatever the declarant wants them to mean; those Biblical passages have a habit of becoming unsurprisingly accurate with benefit of hindsight. Even religious authorities are wildly mixed on the whole notion of Biblical "prophecies."

  5. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    I don't have the words to give you a debate on eschatology. I don't have great debating skills but I can produce all the evidence a rational man, who could look at it in a completely objective manner, would need. It is what some have described as a dusty old book of myths and outdated in modern society. It is the Bible. If one can be completely objective, you will see that the Bible validates itself over and over and over. It is an historical book that provides one with evidence of history of today from the beginning of history as we know it. Predictions were made by the Bible of things that would occur many years in the future and, with a little study, one can find the evidence to show the fulfillment of those things actually happened. That evidence is in history books as well as the Bible. The coming of Jesus was predicted many years in advance of His arrival and His mission in life foretold in the salvation of mankind. His death was foretold in the Old Testament and verified in the New Testament. The current travail of the world was foretold many years ago and descriptions of today's world were given with extreme accuracy. Since the Bible verifies itself over and over, I fail to see how one can deny it and reject Jesus' offering of everlasting life with Him in Heaven. If I were to be allowed only one book in this world, I would select the Bible which is not based on theories but absolute fact. I believe science and the Bible together. They are not mutually exclusive. Can't have one without the other. And one last piece of evidence I believe is what is happening right now in the Middle East. Having read the book, I feel I know the ending already and believe we ALL will be seeing Jesus in the not too distant future. I wish I had the ability to impart to you the necessary words for you to understand how I (and WE) feel and could lead you to Christ. Maybe one day.......
    First of all you are not talking to a rational man. Secondly, salvation is a individual endeavor. You cannot bring a horse to water and make him drink.
    Nosreme is a person filled with hate a pain, obviously. I think you would be better off to try to pick riper fruit. Green fruit is not ready for picking. He needs to forgive himself and everyone else first. Forgiving is not selective. You must forgive all, in order for God to forgive you. Nosreme doesn't seem to fit the profile yet. He may be lost forever. It's up to him to save himself.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    ...He may be lost forever. It's up to him to save himself.
    I saved myself when I abandoned religion.

  7. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by nosreme View Post
    Sorry, OG, but the Bible isn't the evidence--it's a/the source of the assertions in need of supporting evidence. It can't be proof of its own contents. (That very problem is what caused me to start questioning religion when I was about 8 years old. After years of dutifully and even enthusiastically participating in "Jesus Loves Me" chants at Sunday school, I became increasingly suspicious of the notion that the source of the proclamation that "Jesus Loves Me," i.e. the Bible, could also be its own proof that what it said was true, e.g., "This I know, for the Bible tells me so.") Adult Sunday school teachers' condescending annoyance that I would "question the Bible" only accelerated the formation of a thought that maybe we kids were being told what to think and above all to never question anything in or about the Bible. Only later did I learn about brainwashing. By about 7th grade I had pretty much shed the shackles of religious indoctrination and a whole world of intellectual freedom and inquiry, as well as an appreciation for critical thinking, opened up to me and others of my age who had broken the code. Of course, that didn't keep me from going to the Albrook AFB chapel's evening youth fellowship activities for awhile to meet girls.

    As to external events "validating" the Bible's "prophecies," I'm not about to get into that other than to say that the oft-cited passages are so ambiguous that they can be declared to mean whatever the declarant wants them to mean; those Biblical passages have a habit of becoming unsurprisingly accurate with benefit of hindsight. Even religious authorities are wildly mixed on the whole notion of Biblical "prophecies."
    I can understand what you are saying but, considering your exposure to God at an early age, I know you will never forget even what you may consider the most outlandish teachings of the Bible and the condescending teachers. The seed for growth is there, albeit suppressed, and may yet one day flourish. I was fortunate by having church to occupy my time when I was young and enjoyed it tremendously. When I entered the service, I, as many others, went somewhat wild and lived a life that was not pleasing to God. Thankfully, He didn't desert me and was very patient while I sewed my "wild oats." My conscience always bothered me because I knew what I was doing was wrong, not only by Biblical teachings but by our own established moral rules. I was not unique in this, everybody goes through these periods at one time or another in different ways. Eventually, I got my act together and returned to the Lord. I think I can understand your problem with the validation of Biblical prophecies considering your legal background and how even Biblical scholars are often times at odds with each other. When it comes to legalities, my mind is a tabula rasa. I can't give an argument which requires legal thought or proof, only my own interpretation of what I see as having been foretold and the ensuing results. You are an intelligent person and I believe before our time in this world is gone, you will come to the realization that the Bible is true. Still, I enjoy the repartee.

  8. #787
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    First of all you are not talking to a rational man. Secondly, salvation is a individual endeavor. You cannot bring a horse to water and make him drink.
    Nosreme is a person filled with hate a pain, obviously. I think you would be better off to try to pick riper fruit. Green fruit is not ready for picking. He needs to forgive himself and everyone else first. Forgiving is not selective. You must forgive all, in order for God to forgive you. Nosreme doesn't seem to fit the profile yet. He may be lost forever. It's up to him to save himself.
    While I fall short of the Law in my heart too often, I have never found a scriptural justification for a Christian to judge the "ripeness" for spreading the Word of one non-believer over another. The "Law" of which I speak is:

    Matthew 22:37-40 - And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
    And further in Matthew:

    Matthew 28:18-20 - And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
    Oldgrunt is among the most patient and Bible-adherent spreaders of the Word that I "know." He is following Jesus' admonitions to Witness, and he doesn't discriminate between "ripe fruit" or "green fruit," as neither did (or does) Jesus.

    Whether or not he knows it, Oldgrunt has been a quiet, unassuming inspiration Brother in Christ for me, not by being quiet, but by being vocal in his love and faith in Christ while still patiently and lovingly spreading His Gospel even to people who regularly rebuke his Witness. I admire, appreciate and applaud his willingness to engage, as Christ has commanded, with people who are unreceptive to the Word.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. #788
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    Matthew 7:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
    You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  10. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    What Happens When You Die


    The Nature of Hell


    The Meaning of Heaven

    Not an original thought, or any thought, just the parroting of ignorance of ancient goat herders when they thought that the sun was carried across the on a chariot. Seriously can't you do better today, or do your really cling to ignorance of ancient goat herders with the pride of an grinning idiot.

    You're chasing a fairy tale born in ignorance and the fear of some imaginary sky daddy. Whom by the way will send your to eternal torment if you don't obey his silly rules, because he loves you.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    First of all you are not talking to a rational man. Secondly, salvation is a individual endeavor. You cannot bring a horse to water and make him drink.
    Nosreme is a person filled with hate a pain, obviously. I think you would be better off to try to pick riper fruit. Green fruit is not ready for picking. He needs to forgive himself and everyone else first. Forgiving is not selective. You must forgive all, in order for God to forgive you. Nosreme doesn't seem to fit the profile yet. He may be lost forever. It's up to him to save himself.
    SR9: I hesitated in responding to your post but thought I might explain a thing or two. I don't know if you know nosreme's background but I can assure he is a rational man, well educated and seasoned by years of experience. I don't know the intricacies of his life but am familiar with his professional life as a somewhat kindred spirit. He says he is a free-thinker and, as so many do, has skipped over religious dogma. Some let their education get in their way, others just go a different way. Most likely, he was a good father and husband to his family and, unknowingly or not, conducted himself in a manner consistent with the tenets of the Bible. Religion just fell by the wayside for him but not necessarily to the point of him being an irrational person. For a person to put up an argument against religion, knowledge of the subject is imperative in order to articulate perceived wrongs. I believe he knows the way to salvation as prescribed by Jesus but, for one reason or another, he has yet to accept it. I have never met the man yet I have high hopes for him and his journey to the Lord. He will one day think very seriously about his relationship with the Lord, especially in light of advancing age when one realizes that this life is nearly over and there may be some validity to religious claims. In other words, the FINAL EXAM! I try not to give up on people and am deeply concerned with how some on here mock God as the "Big Sky Daddy" and other names you couldn't pay me to use. The Bible says "...fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...." I must be getting much more wise in my old age because I definitely fear the wrath of God! I am glad you take an interest in these discussions and hope you will continue with us and just maybe we can lead the lost to the Shepherd!

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