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Thread: America is a Christian Nation

  1. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    XD40inNC: You, sir, are incorrect in that I hate atheists. I will admit that I do not understand how anyone can deny God in light of all the evidence to prove His existence. The only hate I perceive here is in the things that you continually write against Christians. Personally, I would not pressure you into believing in any deity. I adhere to the teachings of the Bible and there is a passage that says that we are called by the Lord. Maybe you weren't at home at the time but the call is continually being made. I still question why, if you are so dead set against Christianity or belief in any deity, you continue to become involved in the discussions on here. Could it be that you just want to stir up something or, could it be that your spirit is being worked on and you are fighting the call? For whatever reason, I do not hate you for being an unbeliever. That is your choice just as believing in God is mine.
    First, thank you for a thoughtful response and not the mindless copy&paste that others resort to.

    Evidence? Really, a single book that uses some really far reaching 'magic' to explain why anything exists, which by the way flies in the face of the science that is much closer to explaining how the universe came to be.

    You say you adhere to the teaching in the bible; all of them, or just some of them? Are you a young earth creationist, Adam and Eve, believe that noah and the flood is accurate, etc.? Where is the proof, and why is what we know from science so counter to these absurdities?

    I don't really care what you believe, or what you do in the privacy of your own home. The rub comes when you choose to force your views about your religion onto others, through the passage of laws that typically discriminate against those that are different in some way, demanding that the nonsense of the bible be taught as science to every public school student.

    As a christian you see atheists as anti-christian, when in fact I am anti-religion. The reason is best expressed by Voltair when he said:“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

    You can catch many of these atrocities on the evening news every day, and the impetus for their actions is belief in a god. Religion is the greatest threat to civilization's future that exists on the planet.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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  3. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosreme View Post
    XDS40inNC--Many non-thinking people here "hate" atheists but Oldgrunt is neither a non-thinker nor a "hater." He certainly doesn't respect atheism and might not respect us atheists (religious friends including some who are evangelicals constantly remind me that many of them can't respect anybody whose take on religion differ from their own but regard that as separate from respecting nonbelievers' right to make a choice--and most can fully respect the nonbeliever on matters other than religion and all that entails) but he has shown pretty consistently that he respects others' right to believe or not believe. Eidolon's position seems to be pretty much the same as Oldgrunt's. They're both smart and articulate--maybe there's hope they will join us someday <g>!
    Oddly enough I hold the same hope just in a different way.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  4. #813
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    The biggest evidence I can see for the existence of God (specifically the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) is the change He’s made in me. There was a time in my life when I wanted absolutely nothing to with the Christian God.

    I used to sit in A.A. meetings and mock Christians and their religion and state loudly and boldly that I wanted no part of it.


    To make a long story short I was sitting in my Sponsor’s garage smoking a cigarette one day and talking A.A. I don’t remember the exact conversation but we were talking about character defects and how the guilt from my character defects was what drove me to drink or some such A.A. hogwash and out of nowhere a little voice inside my head whispered that all those things that I hated about myself, God had already forgiven. My whole life changed in an instant. My sponsor (who has also left A.A. for the church) said he watched my whole countenance change and I looked at him and told him what happened.

    I didn’t become a Jesus freak over night (actually I did it just took some time to manifest) but I became open to the idea of attending a church and I started reading the Bible. Prior to my conversion experience I couldn’t get through more than one book of the New Testament, I didn’t understand why they told the same story 4 times in a row, I thought Jesus was an egomaniac and I just didn’t get it after my conversion experience I could read the Bible, I understood it better (while still nowhere near perfectly) and I’ve read it cover to cover several times and in several translations (my preference is NKJV) and I find it internally consistent ( no I’m not interested in playing dueling Scriptures) and I believe that the Bible adequately explains my World.

    I am a young Earth creationist, I believe that God formed Adam from the dust of the Earth, I believe there was a flood that covered the Earth to the top of the (at the time) highest mountain and (most importantly) that God has appointed a day in which He will judge the World by the Man Jesus Christ. I believe that judgment will be pass/ fail and that those who have rejected Jesus Christ will be separated from God for all eternity and cast into a place the Bible calls the lake of fire.

    I believe that the only way to escape this fate is to repent of your sins turn to Jesus Christ and accept Him as Lord. If that makes me backward I’ll be backward.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  5. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    First, thank you for a thoughtful response and not the mindless copy&paste that others resort to.

    Evidence? Really, a single book that uses some really far reaching 'magic' to explain why anything exists, which by the way flies in the face of the science that is much closer to explaining how the universe came to be.

    You say you adhere to the teaching in the bible; all of them, or just some of them? Are you a young earth creationist, Adam and Eve, believe that noah and the flood is accurate, etc.? Where is the proof, and why is what we know from science so counter to these absurdities?

    I don't really care what you believe, or what you do in the privacy of your own home. The rub comes when you choose to force your views about your religion onto others, through the passage of laws that typically discriminate against those that are different in some way, demanding that the nonsense of the bible be taught as science to every public school student.

    As a christian you see atheists as anti-christian, when in fact I am anti-religion. The reason is best expressed by Voltair when he said:“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

    You can catch many of these atrocities on the evening news every day, and the impetus for their actions is belief in a god. Religion is the greatest threat to civilization's future that exists on the planet.
    Yes, I do believe in that single book and "far reaching magic" but not to the point that I can't accept the Bible and Science. They are not mutually exclusive and a number of scientific minds have so stated. Am I an earth creationist? Yes, I believe all things, including the earth, were created by God. Do I believe the story about Adam and Eve? Yes, I can not dispute it logically so I accept it with maybe a few qualifications. Did you know that Adam was purported to have been married before Eve? Her name was Lilith. Read this little tidbit:


    Question: "Who was Lilith / Lillith? Does the Bible say anything about Adam having another wife before Eve?"

    Answer: There are legends that Adam had a wife before Eve who was named Lilith, but this is not found in the Bible. The legends vary significantly, but they all essentially agree that Lilith left Adam because she did not want to submit to him. According to the legends, Lilith was an evil, wicked woman who committed adultery with Satan and produced a race of evil creatures. None of this is true. There is no biblical basis whatsoever for these concepts. There is no one in the Bible named Lilith.

    The passage most often pointed to as evidence for Lilith is Isaiah 34:14, which in the NRSV reads, "there too Lilith shall repose." This is a poor translation. Every other major translation of the Bible reads something to the effect of "night creature" or "screech owl." Even if "demon monster named Lilith" was the proper translation of the Hebrew word, Adam is nowhere even hinted at in this passage or its context. Whatever the Lilith was, it is not given any connection whatsoever to Adam or Creation.

    Another commonly used support for Lilith is the differing Creation accounts in Genesis chapters 1-2. Some claim that the woman in Genesis 1 was Lilith, with the woman in Genesis 2 being Eve. This is completely ludicrous. Rather, Genesis chapter 2 is a "closer look" at the creation of Adam and Eve as recorded in Genesis chapter 1. The Bible specifically says that Adam and Eve were the first human beings ever created (Genesis 1:26-28; 2:18-25). This "Lilith" myth is popular in some radical feminist movements because Lilith is an example of a woman refusing to submit to male headship. While there are myths outside of the Word of God regarding Lilith, her complete absence from Scripture demonstrates that she is nothing more than a myth.

    Recommended Resources: The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel and Logos Bible Software.

    Read more: Who was Lilith / Lillith? Does the Bible say anything about Adam having another wife before Eve?

    This is just one example of inconsistency that can make one wonder about the truth of the Bible. But, for a moment, discard the Bible and look out your window. Do you think this world and all of it's wonders just magically appeared from nothing? I feel that what you are seeing has been created by God. I don't say necessarily that it was 6,000 years ago, 60,000 or even l00,000 years ago but I believe God created it and us all. It is much easier for me to accept that as fact rather than deny it and then just say, "Where did we actually come from?" Being a mere mortal, I can't answer questions or provide answers to unbelievers who choose not to believe what I take on faith alone. I will say my faith has given me much comfort during trying times and I would be lost without it. But, just for curiousity's sake, read the prophecies in the Bible and see if you can't relate them to what we are actually experiencing in the world this very day. If one can read the prophecy and validate them with current world events, wouldn't that lend a little more credence to the Bible's evidence of God's existence?

  6. #815
    I would only add to what Oldgrunt said that I really find it curious that science seems to always do all they can to rewrite what the Bible says or at least explain that it was "just a natural occurrence." Such as the Great Flood, parting of the Red Sea and other things that the Bible says.

    I believe that God created Heaven and Earth. He also created man and all the creatures on Earth! I do also believe that there is also evolution. Man and all the creatures evolve and adapt to the to their environment and search for food. Life on Earth did not evolve from some slime that washed up on the beach.

    As for the so called "magic", we see magic every day. How does a flower on a apple tree make a apple? How does a small apple seed make another apple tree? How does an egg make a chicken? There is "magic" around us every day. We are so used to it we just take it for granted!

  7. #816
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    The Bible presupposes belief in some god on the part of the reader. It also states that creation gives us evidence of the Creator and states that you’d have to be a fool to deny the existence of God.

    Now the Bible doesn’t specifically state this but I believe

    That when God created each of us He basically hardwired us to believe that He does in fact exist but if you continually reject Him there will come a time when He will let you go.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  8. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Again, you seem to suffer the very same lack of comprehension of most theists. I have nothing against your god, or any other god, for they just don't exist. To hate a god is as absurd as hating the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, or santa.

    However the hatred, wars, killing and ignorance of believers in these gods is the greatest threat to the future of civilization on the planet. People have, do, and will continue to kill defending an imaginary deity, and that is just plain sick, demented, and totally ignorant. Doubt that, turn on the new, read the paper.

    I'm going to assume that you no longer believe in Santa, hope I'm right. Take all the hate you demonstrate against atheists, and replace god and jesus with santa and his elves, and attack you with what you are so eager to tell others about your imaginary friend.
    Here is my simpleton (but hard to refute) statement to atheists:
    -
    You say I'm small minded to believe that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." You would rather I believe that In the beginning there was nothing, then "bang" there was something, with nothing in existence at the time to provoke it. If that was not the hand of God, then what was it? I believe that science and religion are not mutually exclusive.
    Chief

  9. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Here is my simpleton (but hard to refute) statement to atheists:
    -
    You say I'm small minded to believe that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." You would rather I believe that In the beginning there was nothing, then "bang" there was something, with nothing in existence at the time to provoke it. If that was not the hand of God, then what was it? I believe that science and religion are not mutually exclusive.
    Common sense and just a tiny bit of knowledge about science is all that is needed to refute nonsense.

    That is a question science is still working to answer, but it wasn't a lonely old man thing that looked like us (humanoid) that went abra ca dabra let there be..........

    The easy answer is found in the buy bull, god magic, the that concept is to absurd to be considered by anyone that can actually think for themselves.

    The question is not why 85% of members of the national academy of science are atheists, but why in hell are there 15% that still cling to the ignorance of ancient folklore in spite of the science.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  10. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Common sense and just a tiny bit of knowledge about science is all that is needed to refute nonsense.

    That is a question science is still working to answer, but it wasn't a lonely old man thing that looked like us (humanoid) that went abra ca dabra let there be..........

    The easy answer is found in the buy bull, god magic, the that concept is to absurd to be considered by anyone that can actually think for themselves.

    The question is not why 85% of members of the national academy of science are atheists, but why in hell are there 15% that still cling to the ignorance of ancient folklore in spite of the science.
    Some time in the future you will recall all this thread and remember what you said. The only question will be, "Where will you be when you remember?"

  11. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by vernsimpson View Post
    Some time in the future you will recall all this thread and remember what you said. The only question will be, "Where will you be when you remember?"
    Some time in the future, you will not remember your demonstration of intolerance for atheists, for you will just cease to exist, just like ant you stepped on in your drive today.

    The difference is that you will have spent your time in anticipation of your death, I choose to spend mine enjoying living.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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