Mayors Now Want World Court to Take On Evil U.S. Gun Dealers
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Thread: Mayors Now Want World Court to Take On Evil U.S. Gun Dealers

  1. #1

    Mayors Now Want World Court to Take On Evil U.S. Gun Dealers

    From Virginia Citizens' Defense League (VCDL):

    Chicago Mayor Daley and other mayors: Seek "redress against the gun industry" in the World Court
    **************************************************

    Chicago's Mayor Daley, in an attempt to deflect focus on his horribly failed policies to stop violence in Chicago, is now gone crying to the World Court to do something about evil American gun dealers. Daley is one of those, "Hate America First" politicians that makes my skin crawl.

    When it looks certain that the US Supreme Court is about to rule against your city, why not appeal? Pretty stupid stuff. I don't see it going anywhere, but it is a reminder of our need to be vigilant on international events (also, UN treaties), and a reminder of the efforts our opponents are willing to attempt.

    The Volokh Conspiracy Mayor Daley and other Mayors: Seek ?redress against the gun industry? in the World*Court*

    The Volokh Conspiracy

    Mayor Daley and other Mayors: Seek "redress against the gun industry"
    in the World Court
    David Kopel * April 28, 2010 3:36 am

    April 27 was the tenth annual "Richard J. Daley Global Cities Forum," held in Chicago. Over a hundred mayors and other local government leaders assembled to discuss global issues. As reported in the Chicago Sun-Times, "Daley convinced more than a dozen of his counterparts from around the world to approve a resolution urging 'redress against the gun industry through the courts of the world' in The Hague."

    At a news conference, Daley explained, "This is coming from international mayors. They're saying, 'We're tired of your guns, America. ... We don't want those anymore because guns kill and injure people.'"

    Among the supporters of the Daley resolution was Mexico City Mayor Marcelo Ebrard Casauban, who said that "85 percent" of Mexican drug cartel guns come from the United States. Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter also endorsed a World Court case, because "I love the 2nd Amendment," but "I have a 1st Amendment right not to be shot."

    In 1998, Chicago Mayor Daley and New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial filed the vanguard of what would become three dozen municipal lawsuits against the firearms industry. The lawsuits were not successful in court, but they did come very close to convincing firearms manufacturers to capitulate. The suits were finally ended by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, signed into law in 2005.

    So what are the rules in the International Court of Justice (which is informally called "the World Court")?Chapters 36 and 37 of the ICJ statute define the Court's jurisdiction.

    The classic World Court case is a nation vs. nation dispute in which both parties have submitted to the Court's jurisdiction. For example, Jamaica and the Bahamas ask the World Court to settle their disagreement about who owns some tiny islands in the Caribbean. A World Court ruling in such a case is binding.

    In these state v. state cases, no other party participates, but the World Court can receive information from NGOs, government agencies, and so on.

    Thus, the plaintiff in a ICJ might be the state of Mexico itself. In a state v. state case, a state can assert the interests of its nationals. For example, Mexico might assert the interest of Mexicans who are allegedly harmed by firearms manufacturers which are permitted to operate in the United States or in other nations.

    There are four modes of state consent to ICJ jurisdiction:

    First, the parties themselves can ask the ICJ to hear the case.

    Second, the Court has jurisdiction over "matters specifically provided for ... in treaties and conventions in force." That is, a treaty may declare that it gives the ICJ the authority to resolve dispute arising under the treaty.

    Third, a state may make a general declaration that it will accept ICJ jurisdiction. When the case of Nicaragua v. United States was brought during the Reagan administration, the United States withdrew from ICJ jurisdiction. The decision was made by Executive authority, and could be changed by Executive authority.

    Fourth, jurisdiction can be based on tacit consent (forum prorogatum).

    Besides issuing legally binding opinions in state v. state cases, the ICJ can also issue advisory opinions. Certain United Nations agencies and bodies have the authority to ask the ICJ for an advisory opinion. For example, the United Nations General Assembly asked the ICJ for an advisory opinion about Israel's defensive wall. The ICJ condemned Israel's anti-terrorist barrier as a violation of international law.

    An ICJ advisory opinion is not, in itself, legally binding. However, other courts may accept the ICJ opinion as a definitive statement of international law. So the courts which do have power to compel the state (e.g., a nation's own Supreme Court; or the European Court of Justice) could take the ICJ opinion, and then issue their own order requiring the national government to comply with international law as persuasively declared by the ICJ.

    The ICJ has already shown itself to be willing to get involved in weapons control. In the 1996 case Legality of the Threat or Use of Nuclear Weapons, the ICJ was asked by the UN General Assembly for an advisory opinion on the legality of the use of nuclear weapons. The Court ruled 11-3 that nuclear weapons per se are not prohibited by any international law, but held that most uses of nuclear weapons would be prohibited by general laws of warfare (e.g., the prohibition on targeting civilians). Further the Court held that there was a legal obligation for complete nuclear disarmament: "There exists an obligation to pursue in good faith and bring to a conclusion negotiations leading to nuclear disarmament in all its aspects under strict and effective international control."

    A court which feels competent to mandate complete nuclear disarmament may not feel reluctant about granting the relief sought by Mayor Daley's international allies.

    Of course whether Mexico (or some other nation, such as Brazil, whose President Lula is an ardent advocate of gun prohibition) would bring an ICJ case is at present unknown. Likewise unknown is whether the US would consent to suit, or whether the ICJ would infer some kind of tacit consent. It is also unknown whether Mayor Daley and his allies could accomplish some of their objectives by suing other nations (perhaps with the consent of the nominal "defendants") which have domestic firearms industries which export to the United States civilian market, and which have explicitly consented to ICJ jurisdiction.

    A 2003 article by Joseph Bruce Alonso in the Journal on Firearms & Public Policy explores the legal interplay between international and domestic law in legal cases involving gun control. The short answer is that the Second Amendment might provide some protection in US courts, but would offer little protection from international court actions taken against US nationals-such as the seizure of foreign assets owned by US corporations.
    --------
    Daley: Send gun industry lawsuit to World Court :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Politics

    Chicago Sun-Times

    Daley: Send gun industry lawsuit to World Court
    April 27, 2010
    BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter

    Six years after the state Supreme Court dismissed his $433 million lawsuit against the gun industry, Mayor Daley today called for a change of venue -- to the World Court normally reserved for disputes between nations and crimes against humanity.

    Wrapping up the sixth annual Richard J. Daley Global Cities Forum, Daley convinced more than a dozen of his counterparts from around the world to approve a resolution urging "redress against the gun industry through the courts of the world" in The Hague.

    "This is coming from international mayors. They're saying, 'We're tired of your guns, America. ... We don't want those anymore because guns kill and injure people,' " Daley told a news conference at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

    "If we ship over poison to a country, don't you think we should be responsible for it? That's what they're saying: 'Be responsible for what you manufacture and sell in my country.' ... You have to think outside the box. You have to be [aggressive] about how you protect your people."

    Mexico City Mayor Marcelo Ebrard Casauban noted that the Mexican government is waging a brutal war against drug cartels that get "85 percent" of their weapons from the United States.

    "The U.S. government says, 'We cannot do a lot of things to stop this,'" Casauban said. "We should take actions with legal effects in order to stop this trade between the United States and Mexico."

    Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter acknowledged that using the World Court is a long-shot. But, he said "you never know until you try" and it's worth a try to counter the political muscle and money of the National Rifle Association.

    "We have to do different things. The political establishment in many state capitals -- and certainly in Washington -- [is] so deathly afraid of the NRA that people cannot make the right decision for their own constituents," Nutter said.

    He added, "People are being killed every day in the United States of America with illegal weapons. I love the 2nd Ammendment. [But], I have a 1st Ammendment right not to be shot."

    Gun violence also dominated a panel discussion earlier in the day at the Global Cities Forum.

    It happened when Daley argued that Chicagoans have to "open our hearts and our pocketbooks" to save another generation from being lost.

    "We don't say, 'Come to us.' Government has to go to them. They're isolated. Maybe they have a substance abuse problem. The grandmother is 70 years old and raising grandchildren. ... We have to intervene in a different way we never have before. We have to have more homes for children, such as Boys and Girls Town to help them at earlier ages," the mayor said.

    "This idea of losing a 14-year-old to gangs and drugs in America is unacceptable. It is not a criteria we should ever live with."

    Daley's 1998 lawsuit accused the gun industry of creating a public nuisance by using irresponsible suburban gun shops to flood the city with guns that traffickers supplied to criminals.

    The city and the county sought reimbursement for policing, emergency services and prosecutions tied to gun violence using nuisance laws normally reserved for polluters. In 2004, the state Supreme Court refused to create, what it called "an entirely new species of public nuisance liability."
    Conservative Wife & Mom -- I'm a Conservative Christian-American with dual citizenship...the Kingdom of God is my 1st home and the U.S.A. is my 2nd.

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  3. #2
    wolfhunter Guest
    How many idiots does it take to re-elect this guy?

    I know that no one ever drops of Chicago's Voter Rolls, but even the dead ought to be getting tired of him by now.

  4. #3
    Mayor Daley, have you considered running for office in, say, Mogadishu?

    Sorry, but I cannot accept that rational people (adults) would continue to live in Chicago unless under duress.

    Move to America.
    Reality, DEAL with IT!

  5. #4
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    I wonder if obama will attack Daley as he has the Governor of Ariziona? Does this mean that we will have plenty of blue helments to shoot at in the coming year?

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
    Mayor Daley, have you considered running for office in, say, Mogadishu?

    Sorry, but I cannot accept that rational people (adults) would continue to live in Chicago unless under duress.

    Move to America.
    If Mayor Daley were to run in Mogadishu, he would win. The Chicago motto is, "vote early, and vote often". Remember the JFK election? Daley senior had people climibing out of their graves to vote for JFK.
    Chicago is where Barry Obama learned his politics. Remember Guv Blago? Several former Guv's are now serving prison time? They play dirty, and they play for keeps.
    Chicago is a great place to visit, but there is no way in hell I would live there.

  7. #6
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    Wow, whos he going to hate when the city of Chicago throws Mayor Daley out of office, for what seems to be making Chicago worse? I hate ignorant fools like himself. Im wondering if hed turn the other cheek if he were faced with a situation that could possibly end his life, or the life of his family. I wonder if hed ever think "damn, if only i had a gun to protect myself, or my family this wouldnt have happened?"
    Seems like he needs to get his priorities straight and work on other issues instead of taking his issue to the world court.
    I dont know for sure if 85% of the drug cartel guns come from the USA, sounds like a load of bull to me. If other countries dont want weapons, let them ban their own and see how peaceful things are...
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  8. #7
    Daley has no worries. He has armed goons to protect him. He is the ultimate bureaucratic hypocrite.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  9. #8
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    When the United States starts bowing to the World Court on Domestic issues, it's time to consider implementing your personal end-game strategies...
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ektarr View Post
    When the United States starts bowing to the World Court on Domestic issues, it's time to consider implementing your personal end-game strategies...
    I'd like to try secession, first, just for the hell of it, before I head to the "compound". Nothing to lose, at that point...
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    I'd like to try secession, first, just for the hell of it, before I head to the "compound". Nothing to lose, at that point...
    I don't disagree, except insofar as you'd have to get the unqualified cooperation of your State (ugh!) Politicians. Not bloody likely...bunch'a candy-asses. Let's see where we wind up...the Ship is getting closer to the rocks - let's see which way the wind blows us.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

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